[4.5 Discussion] The Flames of war in 4.5

[Jonnycbad]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...BreakingItHero

[ObsidianFire]

The one big problem I see with having a Time-Travel plot as part of the MSQ in 5.0 is that we already got a classic Time-Travel plot in 3.0 with Alexander. It feels way too soon to have another one.

The implications are also a bit weird... what would be so bad that Alexander decided that writing time again would be a good idea? Or you know... the plot hole of not going to see if Dyne and Myde have any advice on how not to break a timeline... Yeah, I'd feel very weird if we ever had a Time-Travel plot in FFXIV going forwards and everyone pretended Alexander wasn't a thing.

[Jonnycbad]

Yeah but Alex was a side-story so it doesn't really count.

[LineageRazor]

and then Zenos 2.0 as the final boss.

Noooo...

NOOOOOOOO...

They already trolled us once by making the invincible Zenos into a squishie dungeon boss. Don't do this to us again!!!

Actually, I agree. Time travel is a plot that I really tend to dislike, not only because it is a way to resolve plot-holes but because, most of the time, it actually ends up creating a lot more plot-holes than it resolves. That being said, I believe we might be getting some time travel stuff, considering the whole "if history must be unwritten, let it be unwritten".

I think the Alexander storyline showed the devs can handle a time travel plotline without leaving a bunch of plot holes. That story resulted in a nice, tidy time loop; nothing happened that was later undone, the timeline wasn't "changed", etc, etc.

To be fair, though, I agree that if the warning we're receiving is from a "bad future" which we now need to change, that is NOT pointing at a nice, tidy time-loop. It WOULD indicate time travel being used to change fate, not being used to fulfill it. Also thanks to the Alexander storyline, we know that alternate timelines DO exist (the Primal observed many before settling on the one that made up the storyline), so this is possible. Still, I'm cautiously optimistic that they can pull it off.

Yeah, I'd feel very weird if we ever had a Time-Travel plot in FFXIV going forwards and everyone pretended Alexander wasn't a thing.

Well, effectively, Alexander ISN'T a thing. He's permanently sealed away, now, and even if we had the means to unseal him, I doubt anyone would be keen on the idea since everyone is in perfect agreement with the Primal that he's just too dangerous a being to allow to be active, even if he's not malevolent. Any further time travel shenanigans will take part without Alexander's influence. He was probably aware that further time travel antics were in the works, since he observed multiple possible futures before being sealed away, but still decided that the current timeline was the best he could arrange. That doesn't mean that it's a PERFECT timeline, just the best he could manage. (And its primary metric of "goodness" is that it doesn't have Alexander stomping around and sucking all the aether out of everything.)

[TheHeavenAbyss]

I think the Alexander storyline showed the devs can handle a time travel plotline without leaving a bunch of plot holes. That story resulted in a nice, tidy time loop; nothing happened that was later undone, the timeline wasn't "changed", etc, etc.

To be fair, though, I agree that if the warning we're receiving is from a "bad future" which we now need to change, that is NOT pointing at a nice, tidy time-loop. It WOULD indicate time travel being used to change fate, not being used to fulfill it. Also thanks to the Alexander storyline, we know that alternate timelines DO exist (the Primal observed many before settling on the one that made up the storyline), so this is possible. Still, I'm cautiously optimistic that they can pull it off.

Well, I'm not entirely pessimistic, because I know that FFXIV in general tends to explain stuff in a satisfactory manner, at least to me, and a lot of care goes into how the world works, I was just saying that I don't like time travel in general and would prefer if they didn't do it.

The thing is the Alexander storyline was something relatively small and self-contained, so I think it was easier to pull off. But, if Shadowbringers manages to make the time travel simple and to the point and out of our control (as in we don't choose when we are sent to, because that would raise a lot of questions of "well, we should just go to this time to avoid this and warn about this"), in a consistent way (and not going full time patrol like in FFXIII-2), I'm okay with it. Still not a fan of time travel in general, but I can dig it if it's used in a contained way.

[Xie_Belvoule]

Called it...

“War looms once again. Scarcely has Ala Mhigo taken its first breath of freedom when the Empire reaches out with ironclad fingers to reclaim the bloodied nation. “

I was right, massive Garlean counter attack. I also predict they will deploy the black rose.

[Mysteltain]

The closer we get to 4.5, the more I'm getting the impression that, in order to pull off a time-skip sort of scenario (as the Shadowbringer's trailer would imply), we'll complete Ghimlyt Dark and whatever else happens in 4.55, followed by "resetting" the timeline to just before the climax of 4.55 until Shadowbringers eventually drops. I'm not saying that this will be due to any sort of time traveling shenanigans, just your standard New-Game+ or postgame system from other games that let you continue exploring the world or playing the game after you've finished. The Witcher 3 comes to mind, as after the end of that game you're essentially dropped back in to the world just before all of the craziness of the final chapter happens. Same goes for the first two inFamous games, or really most open-world games with a NG+ or postgame feature.

This way, no matter what happens at the conclusion of Stormblood, we won't be locked out of certain areas or be prevented from doing certain quests or tasks based on the events of the story.

[Chewy2nd]

Isn't it kinda hinted time is already chaning, 'The Caller' has already interfered with the present day by calling the Scions and warning us of the twin dooms, in the original timeline that we were never part of, this wouldnt have happened.

[CaesarCV]

I have a few thoughts here, separated by section!

The Dungeon:
I agree with the premise that the Ghimlyt Dark is going to be the site of a critical battle between the Eorzean Alliance and Garlemald. That's more or less confirmed by the dungeon description, and by the fact that most of the enemies seen appear to be Garlean soldiers and machina. Using dungeons to simulate big battles is more popular in Stormblood than it had been in the past. It would make sense for a climactic final dungeon of the patch cycle, and be a good setup for the next expansion. It's also going to be the Empire's counterattack. I personally predict that both sides will be devastated, more than likely by the Black Rose since it was brought up again last patch. This could leave the Alliance in an extremely precarious position, their army gone/exhausted, and The Empire having plenty of legions to replace the ones they'll lose.

The Caller
I get the temptation to think that the caller is from the future given how he mentioned the word 'future' but at the same time there's a bit more of a logical explanation. The fact that he speaks of twin fates and not making the same mistakes he did relates very closely to Arbert, the 'Warrior of Darkness' who doomed his plane to a Flood of Light thanks to recklessly fighting primals. If it's him, there are most certainly twin fates to avert, the end of the prime plane world and his, and it avoids all of the very difficult to deal with time travel shenanigans. And given that a flood of light appears to be the existential danger of Shadowbringers, and the Warrior of Light having to become the Warrior of Darkness...well, it just lines up nicely now doesn't it?

New Game + and Conquering:
I don't see us losing all of Ala Migho or timeskipping to something crazy different. If the counterattack takes anything it would maybe be Ala Migho city, but otherwise those areas are still needed for crafting and gathering quests, class storylines, and a bevy of other things. And if they did a timeskip, what would they do, dump players post story into a totally different server? Just ignore the massive changes? I think it's best for people to temper their expectations a little.

But what do I know? These are my just my own personal thoughts and predictions. I could be right, or totally wrong. Either way I'm definitely looking forward to seeing where things go!

[Mansion]

(And in the 4.5 cliffhanger we discover that it is all Time Compression stuff orchestrated by Ultimecia. That's why we are getting a gunblade!)

I would actually not mind if 5.0 brought devastation on lands we have known, and that this NG+ feature would allow us to "jump back in time" to complete quests that would not be available anymore... It could bring strong immersion. But that would be colossal work.