Is it weird that I like Zenos as a villain?

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think it's an oddity, loads of people liked him. The oddity was the fact that he was specifically created to be an unrelatable, unlikable asshat character, but yet the steps taken to make him such are what ended up endearing himself to the playerbase anyway.

Personally I just thought of him as a boring invincible Villain Sue.

I don't think I've met anyone more aware of his own fragility than Zenos. He's hopeful, but very prepared for life to hold no promise for him. In this case, his VillainSue-ness seems to me to stem wholly from his antipathy, which he is wholly conscious of -- though also of his lacking ability or desire to force a change in. (Honestly, for a villain of any sort, or even the tragic hero archetype, he's got the makings of a catch 22 that rarely fails to sell to an audience that's not immediately dismissive (or, one that doesn't hate him just for the tropes introduced with or upon him).)

For that, I can't really brush him off. If you treat him from the start as caricature, he meets expectations, but the same is true if you treat him from the start as a real character.

[Fynlar]

This are only small examples but the lore book makes it quite clear when we are alone and when we have other adventurers with us. As far as I can see we only had them with us at the end of 2.0 against Garlemald and at the steps of faith (where we searched for adventurers even ingame). Every single primae was done solo according to lore book and some even wonder how he for example manages to slay Thordan and his knights alone. That way the story also makes sense because we simply had no time to get adventurers in most of the scenes. So for me it makes sense that ingame all the talk about having comrades is mostly just a hint for us to gather people and maybe an ingame joke about this.

They're definitely making a joke out of it. Take a look at the DF description for the Pool of Tribute (story Susano fight) for outright confirmation on that >_>

[Schan]

@OP
No I don't find it weird that you like Xenos.

I find it unfair that people compare Yotsuyuu to Xenos considering her story arc is finished and his isn't. If i remember correctly there was a tiny bit of hate towards Yotsuyuu at first because she seemed evil for the sake of being evil as well (although there were way more "step on me" memes).

I don't think I have a character I hate in this game from a "oh it's poorly written" way. They all have their role with pros and cons. Unfortunatly that also means I have no character i absolutely love. I like them all in their own ways, including Xenos.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Ummm...you do realize the expansion is called HEAVENSWARD.



No, that's the last thing I want. I want better villains. I've been to Anime Expo many times, I can't remember seeing anyone dress up as an Ascian. And I can understand why, who cares about them? Look at this poor writing, so we gotta just put up with everything that Elidibus does because we'll risk destroying the world with light if we defeat him and his cohorts. So what, if he develops a spanking machine, we gotta bend over or risk destroying the world? This writing is childish! These guys can possess every World Leader if they wanted and have every city-state fight each other to the death because they have unlimited, undefined powers at this point, and we're not allowed to stop them anymore either.

Duh I know.....I'm just differenciating between the name of the expansion and Thordan's Knights who btw ARE ALSO CALLED THE HEAVENSWARD YET YOU CONFUSED THE TWO.

Also I'm not defending the ascians by any means and beside Elidibus they're my least favorite aspect of the game so don't take me defending other elements as a defense of the ascians

Honestly of all the things I will criticize this game for, the villains wouldn't even enter the top fifty for consideration. Really my only problem with villains in this game is how the writers sometimes force otherwise competent characters to be beaten to death with the idiot stick in order to add weight and menace to villains that should be able to stand up on their own. It cheapens what are otherwise decent antagonists because you can't help but sit there, groaning as the Scions bumble through something that anyone with two brain cells can piece together when just quests before they were perfectly competent. Asahi is the perfect example of this. Whatever competency Alphinaud, Alisaie, and Hien had was thrown to the side because the writers took the short and cheap way to pull a twist anyone could have seen coming from a mile away.

When it comes to the WoD, I'd say he was actually handled fairly competently by comparison. As were Elidibus, Zenos, and Gaius; and all the main villains that weren't introduced and killed off in the secondary patches between expansions. I'd also hesitate to call him a filler character because that plot line is pretty clearly unfinished and a basis for something that might come later down the road. They're pretty clearly setting something up with the World of Light given that Minfillia went with them, and SE is loathe to fully shelve that character in spite of general fan distaste.

Honestly I wasn't too fond of the scions in ARR either especially Minfillia in particular cuz I can't stand her.It was why I was glad in Heavensward they were barely there

As for the villains....again my taste is weird(and probably a garbage taste by most standards).

[Iscah]

Duh I know.....I'm just differenciating between the name of the expansion and Thordan's Knights who btw ARE ALSO CALLED THE HEAVENSWARD YET YOU CONFUSED THE TWO.

Actually, while the game - and Edmont's book - is titled "Heavensward" (ie. "towards the heavens"), Thordan's knights are the "Heavens' Ward" (intended to be "guard of the heavens", I think, though I'm not sure the grammar is right).

The game title is multilayered of course, between "heavensward", the Heavens' Ward and perhaps also us being a ward of House Fortemps.


Also, no need to shout. It adds nothing to your argument and makes you come off as really aggressive.

[MetalSnakeXI1]

Actually, while the game - and Edmont's book - is titled "Heavensward" (ie. "towards the heavens"), Thordan's knights are the "Heavens' Ward" (intended to be "guard of the heavens", I think, though I'm not sure the grammar is right).

The game title is multilayered of course, between "heavensward", the Heavens' Ward and perhaps also us being a ward of House Fortemps.


Also, no need to shout. It adds nothing to your argument and makes you come off as really aggressive.

Sorry for the shouting.....I just got aggrevated when out of all of what I said he nitpicked that one bit and ignored the rest

[Bright-Flower]

Nothing wrong with liking Zenos, though I personally don't. I didn't find him or Yotsuyu engaging. Fordola was the only one of the three main antagonists I had any interest in. Zenos was made intentionally unsympathetic, and while Yotsuyu's story could have been a compelling tragedy, the way it was handled just made 4.2 and 4.3 msq crimge worthy for me.

With Zenos maybe if there was more time exploring what made him the way he is, or if he had more nuance or even just a more entertaining personality maybe I'd have liked him. But I just had nothing to latch onto as a character. He had a fun boss fight and good voice actor but those couldn't save him from the writing for me.


4.4 spoilers

SE has a second chance with Zenos now but it's too late for them to make Yotsuyu engaging.

[Bright-Flower]

They're definitely making a joke out of it. Take a look at the DF description for the Pool of Tribute (story Susano fight) for outright confirmation on that >_>

We also have Lyse in the 4.1 fight against Lakshmi saying 'it takes more than three to kill a primal.' If the WOL was soloing primals left and right we wouldnt' have even needed Arenvald and Fordola there, except for the first bit to protect people from being tempered.

[Edax]

Nothing wrong with liking Zenos, though I personally don't. I didn't find him or Yotsuyu engaging. Fordola was the only one of the three main antagonists I had any interest in. Zenos was made intentionally unsympathetic, and while Yotsuyu's story could have been a compelling tragedy, the way it was handled just made 4.2 and 4.3 msq crimge worthy for me.

With Zenos maybe if there was more time exploring what made him the way he is, or if he had more nuance or even just a more entertaining personality maybe I'd have liked him. But I just had nothing to latch onto as a character. He had a fun boss fight and good voice actor but those couldn't save him from the writing for me.


4.4 spoilers

SE has a second chance with Zenos now but it's too late for them to make Yotsuyu engaging.

I good nuanced villain would have been compelling from the start. When I saw the previews of 4.2 and 4.3, I cringed and avoided the MSQ for many months. I could see they were trying to make Yotsuyu sympathetic, and I just wasn't having any of it. I do not want to sympathize with someone who attempts to purge villages for no reason. In my eyes, you don't come back from genocide. I suppose Yotsuyu's story could have been a critique of Japanese culture, where her parents were the monsters living next door and everyone knew it and did nothing about it and for that were now paying the price for minding their own business. But I see little to no evidence that the story was trying to make that point. They regretted that her parents were awful and shrugged it off in Doma. The story was an attempt to sympathize with a monster like Stalin, whose father did savagely beat him as a child, and perhaps turned him into the monster of history. But this is not a compelling story, and I do not feel sorry for Stalin because of all the pointless suffering and murders he caused. It's the same reasons I did not feel sorry for Yotsuyu. In fact, using Identity Amnesia was really lame, practically an ancient soap opera trope to goes back to the beginning of television. But I know I form the minority opinion on this since I've seen many people praising Yotsuyu's story.

I know people say Zeno's story isn't over yet, and that we're not supposed to judge, but first impressions are important, and he's done nothing compelling for all of Stormblood so far. Waiting until the last second to become well-written is not actually good writing. The moment we saw the Pope in Heavensward, we knew there was more to the story already then first impressions. The moment after we confronted Lady Iceheart, we knew there was more to the story then the first impressions we were given. They were examples of better writing. Apparently I was wrong and Zenos is an Elezen now, but what element of Zeno's story is being built upon here? Did he even have a story to continue? Or is it just the character continuing to exist for longer?

[ChaoticCrimson]

I don't hate Zenos as an antagonist, but he's not my favorite one either. Still, I guess I like him well enough.

I like his English voice, though more while he's actually voicing Zenos himself, not as Elidibus in Zenos' body. ElidiZenos sounds so stilted in English for some reason. Anyway, I've been highly curious what part he has yet to play so I could grow to like him more depending on how things play out.