What exactly IS a White Mage?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

The fact AST has to depend on Refresh from a BRD or MCH makes it a worse job by design, in my opinion. It's hardly a "master" when it can't spread shields, summon a faerie, or instantly fully heal someone.

AST doesn't need a Refresh to stay healthy if they're making use of lightspeed.
Earthly Start and Benefic II+Essential Dignity can get you full health. Collective can also spread shields.

It's similar results with minor inconveniences.

[Lastelli]

The fact AST has to depend on Refresh from a BRD or MCH makes it a worse job by design, in my opinion. It's hardly a "master" when it can't spread shields, summon a faerie, or instantly fully heal someone.

You're not very familiar with healing in hard content, are you?

All 3 healers need refresh for high level play. None need it for low level play. Of course, when discussing "balance" we talk about high level play.

[HyperiusUltima]

I’m surprised the discussion is continuing. From what I’ve seen, I’ll make sure to update the OP regarding AST. Though, about balancing between 24-man and dungeons...there isn’t any middle ground in terms of difficulty. Even the Extremes pale in comparison to Savage considering that the EX Primals are meant to lead INTO Savage for most jobs by default. Since players have gotten better and better, I’ve begun to wonder whether the dev team has been listening to our issues with WHM or not, since it feels like a few of our largest issues haven’t been answered at all since they took that much from WHM’s kit in Stormblood just to help the healer balance(which has been better, but has teetered back to Heavensward 3.4 as I’ve said before).

[IanFrench]

AST/SCH's healing needs a bit of planning due to the limitations they have. WHM although don't have cards/faries, always can power through the "oh shit" situations.

[Gemina]

WHM is the 'selfish' healer. By this, I mean they don't have to worry about mitigating damage, micro managing a pet, or a card system to keep players buffed. This is SE's "pure healer". The healer without a gimmick. This is the strength of the job, yet players want to make it more complex when there are already two other healers to choose from to accomplish this goal. Why?

To me, I see AST as the WHM with the favorable utility. So why not just go AST in dungeons? Because I'm lazy as schite and don't want to worry about keeping members buffed when I can just Holy, Aero III, and Assize the living crap out of everything. That's why. At least I'm honest about it, which is why I say continue to make WHM and even greater dungeon mower where they can rip apart 4-man and 24-man.

Right now, WHM might not be better than the other two healers, but it sure in hell is a whole lot more fun to play than the other two healers. And this is without a gimmick other than their passive lilies.

[Alrin]

WHM is the 'selfish' healer. By this, I mean they don't have to worry about mitigating damage, micro managing a pet, or a card system to keep players buffed. This is SE's "pure healer". The healer without a gimmick. This is the strength of the job, yet players want to make it more complex when there are already two other healers to choose from to accomplish this goal. Why?

Thank The Twelve that I am not only one thinking that

[Lastelli]

WHM is the 'selfish' healer. By this, I mean they don't have to worry about mitigating damage, micro managing a pet, or a card system to keep players buffed. This is SE's "pure healer". The healer without a gimmick. This is the strength of the job, yet players want to make it more complex when there are already two other healers to choose from to accomplish this goal. Why?

I don't think anyone ever suggested making whm more complex. Balanced =/= complex. RDM is now more balanced than before and it's still the same extremely easy and forgiving job it was in 4.0. Sure, it should be weaker than both AST and SCH given that it's by far the easiest healer, but right now it simply is not a desirable job to have in your party in 8-man content. As for dungeons, nobody really cares about dungeons.

[Risvertasashi]

WHM is the 'selfish' healer. By this, I mean they don't have to worry about mitigating damage, micro managing a pet, or a card system to keep players buffed. This is SE's "pure healer". The healer without a gimmick. This is the strength of the job, yet players want to make it more complex when there are already two other healers to choose from to accomplish this goal. Why?

Um. Not all suggestions are this way at all. Scaling up WHM DPS would just be adding potency on to stone and the aeros. No additional complexity at all. Giving WHM some competitive raid buffs would be 1 or 2 button additions. Yeah, it's a tiny bit more, but hardly at all.

Also, WHM has a gimmick, it's just extremely crappy outside of pvp.

"pure healer" is also pretty crappy when it doesn't heal better than the others (by necessity of raid balance).

Right now, WHM might not be better than the other two healers, but it sure in hell is a whole lot more fun to play than the other two healers. And this is without a gimmick other than their passive lilies.

Well, 'fun' is subjective. That being said, I don't want to be forced off WHM either, which is why I'm hoping SE can give WHM a niche instead of leaving it to rot until next expac, a la end of heavensward.

[Gemina]

I don't think anyone ever suggested making whm more complex. Balanced =/= complex. RDM is now more balanced than before and it's still the same extremely easy and forgiving job it was in 4.0. Sure, it should be weaker than both AST and SCH given that it's by far the easiest healer, but right now it simply is not a desirable job to have in your party in 8-man content. As for dungeons, nobody really cares about dungeons.

Asking for additional raid utility is asking to make the job more complex. How are you desiring balance when you make a statement that WHM should be weaker because it's the easiest healer? And what does RDM have to do with healer balance? Balance is a hanging carrot, and jobs leapfrog over the other trying to get it. And whether you care about dungeons or not, you still have to run them don't you?

[Gemina]

Um. Not all suggestions are this way at all. Scaling up WHM DPS would just be adding potency on to stone and the aeros. No additional complexity at all. Giving WHM some competitive raid buffs would be 1 or 2 button additions. Yeah, it's a tiny bit more, but hardly at all.

Also, WHM has a gimmick, it's just extremely crappy outside of pvp.

Again, giving it a couple raid buffs immediately makes the job more complex. I'm not saying it makes it complex I'm saying it makes it more complex than it is as it stands right now.

I assume you're referring to PvP protect? Would be nice to have in PvE wouldn't it? But we don't, so time to move on. And Protect in PvE is hardly a gimmick when all three healers have access to it.

pure healer" is also pretty crappy when it doesn't heal better than the others (by necessity of raid balance).

It doesn't need to heal better than the others, and never has. Optimization already comes from using as few gcds on cures as possible, correct?

Well, 'fun' is subjective. That being said, I don't want to be forced off WHM either, which is why I'm hoping SE can give WHM a niche instead of leaving it to rot until next expac, a la end of heavensward.

It doesn't need one. WHM is fine. It's niche is it has no niche. As I told the other poster, balance is a hanging carrot. 8-man has two slots for three available healers. It's musical chairs. Someone is going to get left out. Always. Giving WHM utility will either have it leapfrog over another healer, or keep right where it's currently at because SCH and AST is still better. Tanks have the same issue. Two slots. Three tanks.

You're asking for a balance that already exists. They are balanced because all of them are viable in 8-man, and can be cleared regardless of composition. All jobs are not created equal. They just aren't, and that is the reality. The only way to do this is to give them all the same abilities with maybe different names and animations, which would be boring.

Fun is subjective, and all I am saying is we have three healers, and each of them do bring something different to the table. I know utility is not one of them for WHM. What it does being is a straight forward play style for the healer that prefers to not have to focus on providing that utility. I love playing SCH and AST. They are phenomenal in 8-man. But sometimes, I want and have earned to be a little selfish, and WHM thankfully provides this.