What exactly IS a White Mage?

[HyperiusUltima]

While this may be a question that has been dated back to 3.4 Heavensward, I want to bring it up again to understand what exactly is going on with White Mage at this time. Considering that the other two healing counterparts have seen numerous buffs, we've only seen fixes to our problems. What I want to do is figure out for ourselves what a White Mage REALLY is in its current state.

To do that, I'm going to boil it down to what they have in their kit, as well as compare it to where the other two healers might have essentially copied from its kit.(Note: Stormblood saw a lot of changes, but one of the biggest issues was actions being taken from other jobs and simply spread to others)

White Mage dates back to the re-release of FFXIV, and was considered the 'main healer' in regards to raiding back in Coil. When Heavensward came out, White Mage got some MP tools to help it manage its MP better; however, before 3.4 we have to realize that AST was very broken to the point it wasn't really playable in Savage content due to its heavily lowered potencies at the start of Heavensward. This was fixed, and come Midas things started to look better in terms of healer balance sans SCH; however, when 3.4 came around they overtuned AST(similar to how they have now) to the point where it's a complete replacement for WHM in terms of capability and healing altogether.

When we got to Stormblood, Healer Balance felt a bit closer than before with how everything worked; main problem however was that Lilies was a very, VERY garbage Job Mechanic for a dated Job. SCH even has a more interesting mechanic with the Fairy than WHM does! AST itself has something that actually ENHANCES its play experience so that you aren't having to stare at what cards you've had for the past 2 minutes. What makes Lilies so bad is the fact that you can only proc off of Single Heals, compared to AoE Heals(Plenary Indulgence, will get onto that later).

The problem with Secret of the Lily is that even though you can gain Lilies through healing with Cure/Cure 2, it's mainly Cooldown Reduction. This encourages a bad playstyle in regards to what the Hall of the Novice actually has said to being able to weave in your own offensive abilities. The current reductions are 4% for one Lily, 10% for two, and 20% for three on use of an oGCD ability.

Continuing on, I'd also like to point out the things from ARR to Stormblood that caused our imbalance in the first place:

ARR
WHM - Had Stoneskin, worked very well with SCH(though there were only two healers back in the day) as a main healer, and was almost considered as a 'pure healer' during those times.

SCH - Supposed to be a co-healer, it was there for providing shields for the party and helping the WHM when pure healing wasn't enough.

HW
- Protect became shared between all healers, which is completely understandable.

WHM - Gained better MP Tools, as well as a free oGCD heal and stronger offensive capabilities(one being their AoE DoT)

SCH - Gained supremely better tools in regards to any healer in this expansion, getting the ability to AoE heal through Aetherflow, being able to spread their own Shields(including Crit Shields), and moreover having a way to convert their Shields into a pure heal.

AST - Introduced, but was very weak at the start due to improper potencies and MP management issues. Gained gradual buffs, and honestly NEVER got nerfed. Come 3.4 it became stronger than WHM due to how Diurnal Sect gained a +10% Healing buff. It also brought strong utilities in terms of its cards.

Present Day
- WHM's Stoneskin was removed, along with having Shroud of Saints Shared, Divine Seal(its main niche) being shared amongst the other healers as a +20% Healing Buff.

WHM - Gained Thin Air, allowing them to cast freely for the duration; Stoneskin replaced with Divine Benison, which was shared in the Lily Mechanic(and ate ALL your Lilies just for a 15% HP Shield that's on a 30s recast). Plenary Indulgence on the other hand was used with AoE Healing, supposedly needing to be used as a follow-up to AoE healing that was already done in case of incoming damage(usually wasted due to how strong WHM's AoE Heals can be along with co-healing being factored in).

SCH - Gained a Crit Buff, HP Insurance through Excog, and a very strong HoT to be its main gauge interaction with the Fairy.

AST - Gained a instant Heal through Lady of Crowns, as well as a way to deal 300 potency through Lord of Crowns through RNG. It also gained a 60s oGCD that has a heal STRONGER THAN CURE III(720 Potency Burst Heal, along with 200 Potency Damage). It even has an ability that actually helps execute its own Job Mechanic(Sleeve Draw).

Overall, I feel like WHM has not gained anything except MP Management Fixes and having parts of its toolkit shared with the other healers(Divine Seal, but I can agree with adding Shroud of Saints as a Role Action). Just what is a White Mage NOW compared to back then? Back then, it gave a particular job fantasy similar to that of an actual healer. As time has went on, it has felt like that has degraded further and further with AST getting what it needed until it got more than what was needed. If anything, I can see that WHM NO LONGER HAS AN IDENTITY IN THE GAME.

...And it'll continue to be this way unless SE decides to get their act together and actually look at the Healer Balance and what's causing such disruptions.

[Daniolaut]

The most fun healing job! (My opinion.)

It’s also very powerful at healing (cure III) and is best suited for progression style raiding. (As its MP pool is much deeper than the other healers, so it can raise more as well as other things.)

[HyperiusUltima]

It’s also very powerful at healing (cure III) and is best suited for progression style raiding. (As its MP pool is much deeper than the other healers, so it can raise more as well as other things.)

Even if it's very powerful in terms of healing, AST can actually MATCH their healing now with their current Recasts. While its MP Pool is pretty large, I don't think raising more is a good thing to note.

[Daniolaut]

Even if it's very powerful in terms of healing, AST can actually MATCH their healing now with their current Recasts. While its MP Pool is pretty large, I don't think raising more is a good thing to note.

If you’re strictly talking “meta healer”

Which sounds like you are trying to,

then no any “meta” group isn’t going to take “powerful jobs” because those don’t boost party dps. They will always take whatever will boost their FFlogs numbers.

Design wise WHM should do more dps than an AST, but if that’s not the case then yes SE should fix that ASAP.

Otherwise again it’s the progression style “powerful” job of the healers.

[HyperiusUltima]

If you’re strictly talking “meta healer”

Which sounds like you are trying to,

then no any “meta” group isn’t going to take “powerful jobs” because those don’t boost party dps. They will always take whatever will boost their FFlogs numbers.

Design wise WHM should do more dps than an AST, but if that’s not the case then yes SE should fix that ASAP.

Otherwise again it’s the progression style “powerful” job of the healers.

The problem is that AST is both the Progression Healer AND the Meta Healer this raid tier due to the buffs it got. Being able to weave in-between every GCD and be able to heal on the same level as WHM is a different thing. AST even has higher DPS than WHM in most cases if you'll look at the current logs for the tier due to how fluently they play.

[Daniolaut]

The problem is that AST is both the Progression Healer AND the Meta Healer this raid tier due to the buffs it got. Being able to weave in-between every GCD and be able to heal on the same level as WHM is a different thing. AST even has higher DPS than WHM in most cases if you'll look at the current logs for the tier due to how fluently they play.

Only thing that matters in regards to balance is WHM should be out dps’ing an AST. Period. If they aren’t SE screwed up horribly.

I just checked the top 10 AST for Chaos and the top 10 WHM for chaos...

SE needs to adjust WHM dps a lot....

(and sorry i seemed to have jumped the gun here. you edited your post after i already responded to your original post.)

[Ghishlain]

I've been trying to avoid responding to these threads because a lot of the WHM rage isn't really concentrated and there is quite a bit of unrestrained salt with anger that skews opinions in a bad way.

With that being, I am not going to disagree that WHM is in a bad position but I will say that WHM isn't as bad off as it was in 3.4 when it was out classed by AST across the table.

What I feel a lot of people are missing is the fact that WHM excels in HPS throughput and sustainability. No, I'm not talking about large numbers that Cure III can output. I'm talking about the number of raw abilities and GCDs WHM can output before running out of steam. WHMs core kit is significantly better suited for the non-savage raids or non-extreme trials where mechanics won't flatten players immediately and the GCD heals will have more significance.

Unfortunately, WHM's primary strength means absolutely nothing in organized and structured raid play, where mechanics will one shot people or lead to instant wipes; or properly coordinated mitigation will assist the lower sustainable healers of SCH and AST to cope with the requirements. This is why WHM is so unsuitable for raid content right now - it's entire kit revolves around keeping a lower skilled player base train chugging along. It has nothing to offer to coordinated, well oiled raider machines that have mechanics down to a tee.

Consider the follow things WHM can do:
-Double 0MP Raises when needed
-15% HP shield every 30 seconds
-Near infinite MP with the power of Thin Air, Lucid Dreaming, and Assize
-100% HP restoration tool which fits perfectly with two of the three tank invulns in the game
-Presence of Mind which can temporarily increase their HPS power with faster GCDs
-And of course, everyone's favorite Cure III, the highest AoE GCD heal in the game. Given the fact every single fight "normal difficclty" fight in this raid tier has a stack mechanic, this can see a lot of play.

...now look at that list above and you'll see what those strengths mean to any uncoordinated PuG group, trap farm PFs, DFing for weeky loots in Omega or Ivalice, new players who don't understand mechanics, etc. etc.

...you'll also notice that those strengths mean absolutely nothing in organized play where there are no surprise factors, all HPS checks are calculated and scheduled. There is no reason to use the WHM kit in these scenarios because you're better of bringing something that can augment the DPS of the rest of the party instead.

TLDR: WHM isn't a weak job. WHMs role as a healer is heavy and sustainable HPS. WHMs strengths, however, don't fit the high tier coordinated raid groups.

edit: I think for me, the two things I'd like to see changed is WHMs getting a potency buff and changes to the Lily mechanics. Due to the nature of the WHM kit, it definitely deserves to do the most DPS of the three healers hands down. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see anything like this until 5.0.

[HyperiusUltima]

@Ghishlain I can see the pros to WHM, but while it can still function, it doesn't outweigh its cons.

Still, it's great that we can actually have a discussion like this on the forums. In regards to WHM however...the way you worded it makes me wonder if people will look at WHM's capabilities and simply turn to Di-AST instead since it has faster casts than WHM in all prospects. As for the OP I have above, generally it's not that I rage, but moreover I have more worry as to whether the devs will actually see their fallacy or not when it comes to healer balance.

[Ordoric]

they need to redefine the "Pure" healer and make it more thematic, I feel like the white mage "story" line and basted WAY TOO MUCH in to CNJ <I.E.> Geomancer of the west.
Whm remove cnj aspected let it follow the 12 and ishgard bring back banish dia make it have shields on cures and an aoe clenz to open up cnj for geo.

Studies have been unearthed and tomes discovered. Magiks used by the clerics of the holy see




Cure, II, III
Upgradable cure spells single target
Curera
Aoe cure based on caster location
Curaga
Targeted aoe cure
Affilius solas
Healing stance adds stoneskin effect to single target healing spells based on max hp
Affilius misery
Converts single target spells to aoe, boosts range of cura and esuna
Banish II, III
Combat spell deals astral light damage. Single target
Dia
Combat spell deals light damage over time single target
Holy
Combat spell deals heavy light damage

[Seraphor]

They're not going to remove the conjurer aspect of white mage, and frankly there's no need to.

The issues with WHM are pretty simple. It needs to have the highest potency DPS, and lilies need to be more effective.

This could be solved with just a Lily rework.
Keep the same mechanism for generating lilies, but change their effect.

1 Lily decreases the cast time and mp cost of GCD spells (both cures and offensive spells) by 0.2s and 5% mp
2 lilies, 0.5s and 10% mp
3 lilies, 1s and 20% mp

Lilies are only consumed by oGCD spells in which case only a single Lily is consumed in order to reduce the cool down of said oGCD by 20%, regardless of how many lilies you have at the time.

This way, they retain a similar effect, in addition to making the function of your Stone spells on par with ASTs Malefic but with higher base potencies.

Or alternatively, instead of decreasing cast times, simply increase potencies.
Either way, this gives you additional DPS capabilities as a reward for GCD healing, but aren't all thrown away with a single oGCD use.