Ala Mhigo Reconstruction

[DamianFatale]

To be fair, instanced or no, there's plenty of precedence for areas that appear one way to someone who has yet to experience a questline and another to someone who's finished it (Alexander, Rhalgr's Reach, most beast tribe areas (Moogles, Namazu, etc.), Alpha's wanderings, etc. Upgrading Ala Mhigo would be no different.

And there was no issue with the moon gates/castle/Doman reconstruction having visible changes. It’s possible to add more to Ala Mhigo.

[DamianFatale]

-snip-

This couldn’t be more wrong. There are Ala Mhigans everywhere in Eorzea. You want to punish the players too?

Secondly, there’s more to maintaining a city than just building structures. Ala Mhigan reconstruction can stay in stay in the city proper. The gate needs repair, Garlean barricades need removal, and the people need help putting order back in their city. They’ve already been confirmed to not want royalty in Ala Mhigo anymore, and seem to want a more people represented government. The people of Ala Mhigo want to do things right, and bring their country of Gyr Albania back to peace.

[Alleo]

I've noticed this tendency to try absolve other city-states of their sins because they were committed in the past.

Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

[DamianFatale]

Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

Exactly. Ala Mhigo deserves fairer treatment. Though I fear for its fate based on current MSQ patches.

[Bright-Flower]

Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

Exactly.

This isn't the first time I've heard someone bring up the Autumn War as if it was something that happened as recent as 1.0.

It's been many generations. Especially in a medieval setting where people don't often have the luxury of living until they're 80. If someone wants to bring up more recent things like Ilberd, fine. Or even the riots that killed Fordola's father. But it's frustrating when people will downplay the positive things we see and go back a hundred years to dig up dirt on ala mhigo. I sure as heck dont' want people looking back 100 years into my bloodline to find things to blame me for.

[Theodric]

Many countries have gone to war with one another long ago in the real world. Bad blood still exists to an extent in the present day, so it's strange to pretend as if the passage of time suddenly renders everything obsolete. In some cases, it is the actual culture of the invading nation that people oppose - and Ala Mhigo's culture has not changed much at all since the days of its attempted invasion of Eorzea. Ala Mhigo still values violence to a significant degree. It still worships a deity associated with destruction. Many of its people act under the belief that the world owes them something - as seen with the horrific behaviour of many of the refugees.

I also wouldn't really class Hydaelyn as a 'medieval setting'. There's certainly a lot of risks that lower life expectancy but there's many elderly NPC's to be seen throughout the game world...including combatants.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I actually think Ishgard stands the best chance against the Empire. While exhausted from a thousand year long war, those have perfectly honed military traditions and the alliance with very powerful dragons like Hraesvelgr. We've seen what kind of damage Midgardsormr can do to the Empire in the intro movie. Ishgard itself is covered with anti-air guns so I'd imagine the Empire would struggle to attack Ishgard directly, so the question being how good they'd be spearheading an attack into the Empire.

Midgardsormr was uniquely powerful (and huge) at the time, and is much diminished now, with his original body dead at the Keeper of the Lake. And the other dragons, especially Hraesvelgr himself, want little or nothing to do with the mortal races. They can't really be counted on as allies against the Empire. Note that not a single one showed up to help liberate Ala Mhigo or Doma.

[Derio]

Can we have Ishgard Reconstruction leading up to Ishgard Housing? I think that would be better. One of my biggest gripe with the reconstruction is there is nothing to do in Doma other than MSQ with Lord Hein and doma reconstruction. Outside of that it is almost a useless space.

[Alleo]

Many countries have gone to war with one another long ago in the real world. Bad blood still exists to an extent in the present day, so it's strange to pretend as if the passage of time suddenly renders everything obsolete. In some cases, it is the actual culture of the invading nation that people oppose - and Ala Mhigo's culture has not changed much at all since the days of its attempted invasion of Eorzea. Ala Mhigo still values violence to a significant degree. It still worships a deity associated with destruction. Many of its people act under the belief that the world owes them something - as seen with the horrific behaviour of many of the refugees.

I also wouldn't really class Hydaelyn as a 'medieval setting'. There's certainly a lot of risks that lower life expectancy but there's many elderly NPC's to be seen throughout the game world...including combatants.

Just because there are people that cant let go of the past does not mean that its right. Otherwise as a German I would be responsible for what had happened decades ago too! And that is something we are not. We talk about our history and learn from it so that something like that will never happen again. The only ones that are calling us certain names are hateful people that use it as an insult. There are also some that might not get over it because the state that did a horrible thing never acknowledged what they have done or outright ignore that part of their history but that still is not the majority of our own world and kinda a seperate issue itself.

If we take the view of "its medieval setting" then shouldnt that make them right? Because as far as I know the medieval period of our time was certainly not full with harmony and peace either. But we do see with Isghard and even with Raubahns stance on Fordola that even in this fictional world ongoing grudges are bad. Thus they are not that far from our own moral view on these things. Punish those that are doing something wrong right now but stop putting the blame on people that never even lived at that time. Otherwise are certain empire will always be bad no matter how much they might change in the future.

(Lets not forget that a lot of these refugees are fighting for their lives for years and have been threated badly by Uldah too. Some might just be violent but not everyone.)

[Bright-Flower]

I don't think it's exactly fair to say their culture hasn't changed.

We have them rejecting the old monarchy system and taking up a democratic republic system. And so far nobody but the token evil group of bestmen contesting it. We have the Fist of Rhalgr being reformed with new ideals, shying away from the 'let's kill eachother to open our chakras' thing. On top of that, there was an 80 or so year gap between the autumn war and the garlean invasion, during which time we have no evidence of ala mhigo starting conflicts. It's not like they were constantly stirring the kettle. They had a warrior culture of sorts yes but that didn't lead to constant warmongering, it lead to them exporting mercenaries.

Yes we see plenty of examples of bad ala mhigans, but what city state doesn't have villains? A lot of things done, while not justified, are the result of two decades of a harsh garlean occupation, which then only got worse under Zenos. And we have plenty of examples of good ala mhigans. Yda/Lyse, Raubahn, Minfilia, Conrad, Lyse's father, Arenvald, the miner guild leader, the elder in charge of Little Ala Mhigo, etc. It's not entirely fair to just look at the bad examples and a war from a century ago to paint them all as bad and unsympathetic.