State of the Game: Savage+ Dungeons and End Game Leves

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Essentially, the Mythic+ system from WoW by the sound of it. Either way, yes. I have been begging for something like they to breath new life into stale content. The best part is it costs the devs very little to implement since virtually everything is reused assets with maybe some minor deviations here and there. You could really tie some fun achievements to a system like this...

"Complete Sohm Al (HM) in under x amount of time."
"Complete <insert dungeon> without abilities"
"Complete <insert dungeon> without a tank."
"Complete <insert dungeon> while under permanent mini."

Silly things like that can go a long way to making an otherwise boring dungeon fun, especially with titles, mounts and minions included.

[Delmontyb]

The best part is it costs the devs very little to implement since virtually everything is reused assets with maybe some minor deviations here and there. You could really tie some fun achievements to a system like this...

That's what I assume and hope to be true too!!! Being that they have already created the modifier system (HOH and POTD), they have already created the dungeons, they just need to join those two systems together, and pull from the vast number of dungeons that just sit there, and make the enemies the current level, and allow you to keep pushing the enemy level higher, and add mods to really throw some fun at the players.

Plus, they also have the leaderboard system from HOH and POTD too, so in my mind, it's still work on their part, but it could and should add some dynamic, repeatable content for players each week without a huge investment of time.

[KisaiTenshi]

Essentially, the Mythic+ system from WoW by the sound of it. Either way, yes. I have been begging for something like they to breath new life into stale content. The best part is it costs the devs very little to implement since virtually everything is reused assets with maybe some minor deviations here and there. You could really tie some fun achievements to a system like this...

"Complete Sohm Al (HM) in under x amount of time."
"Complete <insert dungeon> without abilities"
"Complete <insert dungeon> without a tank."
"Complete <insert dungeon> while under permanent mini."

Silly things like that can go a long way to making an otherwise boring dungeon fun, especially with titles, mounts and minions included.

And that's the problem with it, if players want this, then we get this content instead of new content.

Not opposed to having some kind of auto-handicap system, but as soon as you tie rewards into it, it becomes another "nerf it" mess. Just create a leaderboard system, and players who actually complete content solo under certain conditions get specific non-tradeable/non-market-sellable rewards that are otherwise cash shop items already available.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And that's the problem with it, if players want this, then we get this content instead of new content.

Not opposed to having some kind of auto-handicap system, but as soon as you tie rewards into it, it becomes another "nerf it" mess. Just create a leaderboard system, and players who actually complete content solo under certain conditions get specific non-tradeable/non-market-sellable rewards that are otherwise cash shop items already available.

Why? The whole idea is discovering cost efficient alternatives so it doesn't impact the budget too severely. That being said, if we absolutely have to shelf something. I doubt too many will be miffed about losing a by-the-numbers dungeon or the host of niche content they've released in Stromblood.

Here's a solution. Don't nerf it. That has been among their biggest issues. They keep nerfing everything yet wonder why people complain there isn't anything to do. Well, yeah, if the content can all be done in a day because it's brain dead simple, it's never going to last. Conversely, when they actually refused to nerf content (Weeping City, Final Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie), people eventually "got over it."

[KisaiTenshi]

Why? The whole idea is discovering cost efficient alternatives so it doesn't impact the budget too severely. That being said, if we absolutely have to shelf something. I doubt too many will be miffed about losing a by-the-numbers dungeon or the host of niche content they've released in Stromblood.

Here's a solution. Don't nerf it. That has been among their biggest issues. They keep nerfing everything yet wonder why people complain there isn't anything to do. Well, yeah, if the content can all be done in a day because it's brain dead simple, it's never going to last. Conversely, when they actually refused to nerf content (Weeping City, Final Steps of Faith and Royal Menagerie), people eventually "got over it."

You want to basically add a "challenge mode" / "boss rush" mode to content that is still otherwise has an option to unsync. With no budget. QA goes into balancing everything. So you're only saving SE the development costs of designing a new dungeon or primal in favor of adding a "double the HP of everything" option that adds nothing and has no reward.

Like the kind of thing I'd like to see is put a fixed handicap option list, and if 95% of the players who have played it (not runs, players) can clear it with that handicap, that handicap becomes the default, and thus any potential reward requires being able to clear with that handicap, solo. For party, the handicap has to be work like HoH/PotD does, where the players have to play a specific party configuration for it to count (like, ... all bards)

[Tsumdere]

You want to basically add a "challenge mode" / "boss rush" mode to content that is still otherwise has an option to unsync. With no budget. QA goes into balancing everything. So you're only saving SE the development costs of designing a new dungeon or primal in favor of adding a "double the HP of everything" option that adds nothing and has no reward.

Like the kind of thing I'd like to see is put a fixed handicap option list, and if 95% of the players who have played it (not runs, players) can clear it with that handicap, that handicap becomes the default, and thus any potential reward requires being able to clear with that handicap, solo. For party, the handicap has to be work like HoH/PotD does, where the players have to play a specific party configuration for it to count (like, ... all bards)

What? Did you breeze over people asking for titles and leader boards? Those things would take such minuscule amounts out of the budget to do but add a ton of replayability for a good chunk of players. Grab a few mobs that are already modeled and animated and make them mounts. Wham. Three different rewards for very little development time and a new group of happy players.

Hell. Even add a gil sink of Savage Dungeon Sustain potions so they can do crazy things like Keeper of the Lake + 4 BLM + Double Enemy Health + Blind or something.

[KisaiTenshi]

What? Did you breeze over people asking for titles and leader boards? Those things would take such minuscule amounts out of the budget to do but add a ton of replayability for a good chunk of players. Grab a few mobs that are already modeled and animated and make them mounts. Wham. Three different rewards for very little development time and a new group of happy players.

Hell. Even add a gil sink of Savage Dungeon Sustain potions so they can do crazy things like Keeper of the Lake + 4 BLM + Double Enemy Health + Blind or something.

You have no idea how much it would cost them, titles take up RAM in the game client. Mounts take up disk space, because you can't just make a boss a mount by rescaling it. It needs to have all the mount animations for swimming and flying too. Why do you think we haven't seen all the 2.0 mounts fly yet?

At best, a permanent leaderboard system would be the easiest thing for SE to maintain as they already have a system in place for it for PotD and HoH. Extending it to other content requires tracking points, and to do that, take the HoH strategy for doing this content by syncing the content to minimum ilevel, and have the handicap be a permanent debuff applied at the start. Separate scores for solo and party.

[Tsumdere]

You have no idea how much it would cost them, titles take up RAM in the game client. Mounts take up disk space, because you can't just make a boss a mount by rescaling it. It needs to have all the mount animations for swimming and flying too. Why do you think we haven't seen all the 2.0 mounts fly yet?

I do know how much it would cost. Titles cost next to nothing as they are just text and state switches. Two or three more titles are not going to take up more than a sub-inkling of space.

As for mounts, all of the mounts swimming animation is the same as the flying animation, and for half the mounts the flying animation is them floating in the air. It doesn't take a animating genius to see that it's not more than a few days work to make a hover animation. The only reason we haven't seen the 2.0 horses fly is because it's not their prerogative right now. Or that they are too lazy to make some particles and put the Sleipnir animations on them flying.
Besides, I personally was thinking about having an Lost City of Amdapor Savage. Tons of people want a giant morpho to ride, what a better candidate for a reward. It already has a flying animation so it would be a literal scale up and reuse the mount code on it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You want to basically add a "challenge mode" / "boss rush" mode to content that is still otherwise has an option to unsync. With no budget. QA goes into balancing everything. So you're only saving SE the development costs of designing a new dungeon or primal in favor of adding a "double the HP of everything" option that adds nothing and has no reward.

Like the kind of thing I'd like to see is put a fixed handicap option list, and if 95% of the players who have played it (not runs, players) can clear it with that handicap, that handicap becomes the default, and thus any potential reward requires being able to clear with that handicap, solo. For party, the handicap has to be work like HoH/PotD does, where the players have to play a specific party configuration for it to count (like, ... all bards)

... What? I literally said in my initial post they could add titles, mounts, minion and a leadership board. Even simply achievements go a long way to make the content worth doing. How does this cost any additional resources? Like Tsumdere said, you'd be reusing everything. Take The Vault, add some of the aforementioned stipulations, increase mob HP and/or frequency of their mechanics and you're golden. WoW has been doing this for years in the form of Mythic+, I can't imagine SE being incapable.

RAM and disk space? Come on. We're talking minuscule amounts. If they can add a new cash shop mount, they can handle a title and mounts. Hell, they add titles to trivial things like 20,000 FATEs. Stop doing that and make titles more meaningful. Bam.

[ForctyusGold]

it will be great to bring back battle leves, but i dont think its a good way how you describe them, it can be somehow different from previous but dont know, for this waves could be better something like a arena, for solo or 4-players