Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

[Remedi]

They change when ppl complain enough, so far the mayor complaints that have occurred with FF14 is how every time that something requires more than 2 minutes of effort and more that 3 button to push is so much grindy and boring and since these voices are the loudest by far and large I can safely assume that SE won't change their stance on relics for the time beign ESPECIALLY for Eureka which has already panned out it's evolution

and frankly that apology was pathetic since it wasn't even needed, But I guess ppl wanted a 210 weapon witghout effort, while raiders had to suffer A4s
It wasn't even a long grind to begin with and not even that costly

[Pyro2hell3]

They change when ppl complain enough, so far the mayor complaints that have occurred with FF14 is how every time that something requires more than 2 minutes of effort and more that 3 button to push is so much grindy and boring and since these voices are the loudest by far and large I can safely assume that SE won't change their stance on relics for the time beign ESPECIALLY for Eureka which has already panned out it's evolution

you know this claim has been made in response to anything and everything
"hey could you make this system actually work or maybe just not suck? " rarrrr it must be sucky badly made mess to make it hard!!!" never mind people aren't even asking for it to be easy or that something can be both hard and fun or that a properly made grind is actually fun etc

[Remedi]

Sorry but fun is personal and honestly I have yet to find something that was fun grinding for several hours, so forgive me if I consider fun grinding just a buzzword

To give an example: I've enjoyed many combat RPGs in the past even finding addictive, but the moment I had to simply grind some materials or what not ,even on extremely fun combat, it made the game boring for me even if I had fun before.

[Metsonm]

I'm not going to sit here and ask for Eureka to be removed, but I will say I miss the old system and wish they would have given us an option to progress relics through Eureka or dungeons/trials/whatever. Or trade in our completed Anima to jump to level 20. God, I hate the levelling.

[Dzian]

There's actually no difference between NM, FATES and Hunts. It's basically group to kill a big monster. I really can't understand this FATE hate...do people really expect not having to kill monsters in an FF game ?

because fates are utterly boring, pointless, lifeless, brainless, zerg fests. so are hunts. it's all mindless.
hunts would be so much better if they had a claim system and actually required some form of tactics instead of just throw enough bodies at it till it's dead...
fates would be better if they actually had some depth or impact on the world... but you can kill that swarm of mobs or just ignore em it really doesn't matter either way.....

I haven't done eureka. I said ages ago I wouldn't even touch it if it was more fate grinding. and that's exactly what it is.....

No, people play poorly. They'd rather stay AFK and gain pitiful experience points and no crystal from high level NM instead of actually targeting monsters of the appropriate level and gain much higher Xp/Protean crystal per hour.

because it's ultimately so damn boring and mindless. it might be slower to go afk but it's probably infinitely less tedious....

Yes they could, but the point is they won't. When they made relic requiring too much time to some, they had to apologize on the live letter, ppl can't stomach long grinds anymore

this depends on a lot of things. what you have to do? how long for and what you get at the end of it? the main reason people can't stomach long grinds in modern mmos is simply because the rewards don't last long enough to justify the length of the grind....

[Ekimmak]

The problem I see with this, is that it's content in an MMO that actively discourages new players and grouping together.

If I try to work on my own, it's mind-numbingly boring. If I group up, it's inneficient, because unless everybody is the same level, there's an exp penalty.

Across 20 levels, there's a lot of variance.

New players have to slog around, so it takes them longer to get to the low level NM they need, perhaps it'll even die before they get there. And because the NM syncs down high level players (and the NM is considered much lower level than the nearby normal enemies), you've got people discouraged from dealing with adds, since there's no guarantee people will help you kill them, but there's a very high chance you'll get killed due to the boss' poorly telegraphed attacks (good luck seeing that under all the explosions).

Frankly, it's just not fun. I don't expect to be just GIVEN good stuff, but I'd like to have visible progress.

[Keridwyn]

I reacted poorly to Eureka not because I hated everything about it but because it came so close to being something I enjoyed and wasted it's potential. There are things in there I appreciate (the varying forms of how you can catch aggro are good!) but the fact it turned into just another fate chain really just let it down.

I will admit once you can mount things ease up a little bit and the catch up challenge log is pretty nice for those who have drug their feet about it but it's hardly the kind of content that grabs you.

[Remedi]

this depends on a lot of things. what you have to do? how long for and what you get at the end of it? the main reason people can't stomach long grinds in modern mmos is simply because the rewards don't last long enough to justify the length of the grind....

A good injterpretation, but I don't agree on it, the fact that ppl had a stomach for grinds before had to also be that usually before you had one game that had to last you for a good while, now you have a much broader selection of games to the point that you can have the feeling of having too many games to play as such ppl are more mindful pf grinds.
Grinds have never been fun they were accepted because there was no alternative, that's why I don't like any arguments on fun in any kind of content, it a very subjective argument and can easily be countered upon while other problems in content should be brought to light more because they are far more problematic and objective.

[Shurrikhan]

Your not wrong for wanting or hoping for something to change. I just dont understand what could have led you to expect it to change. Until SE changes their position on appealing to the lowest common denominator and then drastically overhaul the the core concept of their armory system (homogenized jobs), and decide to really shake up their incentives (Gear with interesting stats/horizontal progression), then the shake up you are looking for cannot happen. The devs have painted themselves into a corner and the only way out would be the introduction of an expansion that brings the necessary groundwork for change.

While I'd certainly like to see these things, that doesn't mean it such changes are the minimum threshold by which to see positive change. Consider the HW relics, for instance, and light farming. At least that allowed more avenues of play than Eureka, Eureka, or... Eureka. They could have just as easily gone further, allowing you to loot Key Items from various content types by which to enhance your Relics, ultimately to the same result but with pace approaching a level commensurate to the effort per minute required for harder vs. easier sources of those upgrades.

Personally, I'd love to see open-ended quests by which to pursue relic-craft knowledge or upgrade techniques, which could then be used in the construction of other relics for other jobs, make up at least half the process.



Though, inversely...

I see this most when I think of new jobs. People want BLU, well, i'm terribly sorry but you will NOT get the BLU you want. The only time you will "capture a move from an enemy" will be in your class quests, you will do it once as a cutscene after the fight, then *poof* you have "Goblin Punch" which is now part of your base combo. There will not be any randomness to what moves you can get because all the combat needs to be predictable by the devs for ease of balancing. Same thing for BST, you will get a reskinned SMN. Because what kind of backlash do you think would happen when the new job queues and you "forgot" got capture "X" before the dungeon, now you are not functioning at capacity for the instance. Look at the Tank thread on the front page right now and thats something that tanks always have...

There's actually absolutely no reason that would need be the case. Class balance is not held tightly over the leveling process; it's content to simply be tight enough that no one flies off in a rage. What would it matter if the BLU didn't seek out situational ability Y before going into Bartam's Mettle? The difference between a decent and slightly-above-decent BLU is already going to make a larger difference than that skill would. Balance only really becomes a thing at level cap, and so long as there is a fixed total arsenal of spells, the methods of acquisition are largely irrelevant.

The reason you're likely not to see BLU receive actions by alternate means is because there's little exciting alternate content in which to set those methods of acquisition. If a BLU were able to fight a mob well above their own level to receive an action "early", the issue would be less one of balance as, in the process of getting some friends together to go and get the skill from elite mob X, one is left wondering why the open world feels so damn barren.

The systems remain rigid and stale less because they have to as simply for fear of the can of worms opened if the game exposed how much of itself has been left undeveloped, how many opportunities are skipped. It might not take a meteor, even then, for XIV to exit its contentedly sheltered state, but it will at least take a crafty sequence of improvements, each seemingly beneficial in its own right, that each prototype and move towards some far more fleshed out state for the game -- filling in without exposing the voids.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I will admit once you can mount things ease up a little bit and the catch up challenge log is pretty nice for those who have drug their feet about it but it's hardly the kind of content that grabs you.

I may have said this earlier, however a big reason for that is they highlighted arguably the worst attribute of FFXIV: Combat. Due to its rigid nature, combat simply isn't engaging in FFXIV. What makes it fun is performing your rotation while interacting with mechanics. Unfortunately, trash mobs offer precisely zero interaction, thus it's just mindless spamming a rotation on the equivalent of a dummy that procs. NMs are better, though they suffer from the same zerg mentality hunts do. The devs need to find a way to make actual gameplay and grinding more engaging. Personally, I feel if trash spawned a mini-boss that was scaled to your party composition and could not be touched by other players would be a step towards doing that, provided it actually came with a reasonable challenge. NMs could then be a little more rare, worth more to kill but also much harder.

Often times, less is more. And I feel Eureka forgot that.