Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mavrias]

He wanted to have Protect to be able to reapply it which I didn't think was odd since I've done that fight with a friend who does the same thing. It usually isn't an issue either but for some reason these dps were really set on killing every ghost box :/

I mean the dps and your AST friend deserve more criticism than the PLD then.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

"BUT MUH PARSE!" strikes again.
Stuff like this is usually due to players caring too much about looking good on FFlogs, to the detriment of actually keeping the party alive.

The irony there is this results in a slower kill time, which has a far higher impact on your parse than Shield Swipe procs, which are negligible.

[Miste]

and your AST friend deserve more criticism than the PLD then.

No?

One of the healers should be taking Protect in case people die so they can recast it.

The healer that has Protect set has no room for Surecast since O5S needs Esuna as well (If you don't do the WAR skip, and some pugs don't do it...if you DO the WAR skip then no problem since both healers could drop Esuna for anything else...just yeah not all random PFs do this strat.)

You could make room for Surecast, but the healer who takes Protect would have to drop one of these: Largesse, Lucid Dreaming, or Swiftcast, and well those are all kinda good so it makes more sense to simply keep one ghost box alive like you're supposed to.

Esuna isn't 100% necessary....you can still heal through the Ghost without using Esuna on the debuff it gives you, but it will cause a lot of wasted MP since your heals are extremely nerfed due to the debuff. I've done it before when I've forgotten to set Esuna, but it is kinda dangerous and I've almost died so I don't recommend it really.

It makes no sense to force a healer to remove a good cross role ability to have Surecast just because people aren't just leaving one ghost up, it's not hard? Just don't touch the ghost with the light /shrug.

If you had a BRD/MCH in the group and the party kept killing the ghost boxes this wouldn't even be a question the PLD would have to save them since they can't even use knockback prevention. PLD should adjust to avoid a wipe obviously not worry about shield swipe...

I mean I love doing good DPS on healer, but if someone makes a mistake that I could fix and avoid people dying or possible wipe.... do I go "Nah, I am not saving them even though I could, cause...you know...MY PARSE!"?? Obviously a bad decision right?

[Alaray]

I mean the dps and your AST friend deserve more criticism than the PLD then.

If someone asks for something and that's the PLD's return, then the reason for even having the PLD there is low unless they were using cover elsewhere.

A decent PLD can cover and not miss a GCD. And it's better to use your utility if it's available and requested in time, than to let someone die because you couldn't be bothered.

It's different if he's using it elsewhere in the fight and it's not available, but the response written says he's not using it at all. Which is just being a bad player.

A parse doesn't mean anything if you're being a liability to your team in the process of getting it.

[Mavrias]

snip

snip

You realize that me saying that you should sooner be criticizing the dps for destroying the wall or the healer taking protect over surecast (dont get me wrong protect is nice but not necessary you can heal the fight without it easily) is not me excusing the PLD, right?

There are layers of mistakes that would lead to the healers death in this situation, not just "PLD didnt cover me"

[Miste]

You realize that me saying that you should sooner be criticizing the dps for destroying the wall or the healer taking protect over surecast (dont get me wrong protect is nice but not necessary you can heal the fight without it easily) is not me excusing the PLD, right?

You realize you said "the DPS and the AST deserve more criticism than the PLD" right?

I mean the dps and your AST friend deserve more criticism than the PLD then.

I don't agree for really obvious reasons.

The DPS definitely are doing things wrong since they keep killing all the ghosts this is true, but mistakes happen all you can do is keep telling them not to put the lights on the ghost box. They didn't say something like "Hey, I'm destroying them on purpose lul!" so its not like they are doing something on purpose to hold the group back. So keep trying or kick the DPS who can't understand it I guess?

The healer is simply doing their job by having one of them take Protect in order to recast it if anyone dies.

The PLD outright admitted "my own damage is more important than actually helping the group succeed by using everything I can to fix any issues that may arise."

I never said you are excusing the PLD /shrug so no idea where you got that from. As I said in the first sentence you said the healer deserves more criticism for just doing their job? Than a PLD actively admitting "I'm not helping because my damage is more important."

This seems like a really backwards mentality to have. Like I said if I played healer like that and let people die for my damage you can EASILY see how well that would go over.

There are layers of mistakes that would lead to the healers death in this situation, not just "PLD didnt cover me"

Yes, I understand that, but if those mistakes happen then people should try to help the party if they have something that could fix a mistake. If they fail anyway? It's fine because at least they tried. Saying outright that you aren't even going to try to help is showing you have no sense of teamwork.

If layers of mistakes lead to a DPS dying and I refuse to raise them because it interferes with my healer DPS.....yeah sounds bad doesn't it?

[Maeka]

I don't know what's with the last couple days, but oi.

Been seeing some fail healers in lowbie dungeons lately. I've been trying to push my warrior to 30 and doing the daily Leveling Roulette on my 40s BLM and the fail.... is just staggering. I think at least 8 out of the last 10 healers were just ugh.

Now, okay, a couple of them were first-timer sprouts and I'm not going to say anything bad about that, but a few of them should have known better. I had a CNJ with glamours let me die on the 2nd boss of Thousand Maws because they were spamming Esuna instead of Cure, and standing there for 1-2 seconds between casts not doing anything (we killed him on the 2nd attempt only because we had an ACN who took it upon himself to spam Physick lol).

Then I ended up in Haukke Manor with an "OK" healer but fail DPS. Second Boss with the skeleton and the imp, I said in chat "kill imp first" .... what does the LNC do? He tunnels the skeleton the whole fight. Here I am, a 28 MRD without Defiance (because that requires WAR30) taking all kinds of damage, the healer has to spam Cures on me to keep me alive and they're not even trying to work with the team. So I switch targets (because it's obvious the LNC is dead-set on killing the skeleton first) and the other DPS, I forget what... a SMN maybe, decides he's going to tunnel the imp despite the fact everybody else is attacking the skeleton. Skeleton dies first and then finally, 30 seconds after that we finally knock the imp off. Yeesh.

Last boss, I tell them "gotta click on the lamps when they light up" .... nope. Only the healer and the SMN even bother, and so I'm like "I guess I gotta do it myself too" so we're all running around the room clicking lamps. LNC again decides to tunnel the boss regardless of what else is happening around them. Thankfully nobody died, but we had several close calls, I came to <100 HP twice in the fight and had to start kiting, thankfully Amadine is prone to deciding to cast spells if you run from her, which gave the healer barely enough time to land Cure2s on me before I dropped dead.

I decided "screw this crap" and went to 51-60 PotD because I was halfway to 30 at the end of that Haukke run. What do you know, I get stuck in a group with two ARCs and a BLM. For some weird reason, the BLM drops group after the first floor. We didn't really do anything seriously wrong, 'cept one of the ARCs pulled a couple extra mobs that weren't totally necessary. Nowhere near coming to a wipe.

Wound up getting a ROG as a replacement and it was for the most part smooth sailing. No deaths, boss went down like a baby like he always does.

Yeah, I think Imma take a break until tomorrow and hope for people who actually know what they're doing at least passably well.

At least now I finally have Defiance...

EDIT: Forgot to mention the fail Dzemael Darkhold group as my BLM's daily roulette today. Where to even start with that.... Returnee DRK tank, a NIN with a coliseum glamour (the bikini one), and a WHM. Tank was absolutely clueless about the crystals' buff and tanked mobs out in the open, causing a quick wipe in the first big room with the 8+ mobs in it. He lasted like 5 seconds, lol. Heck, me tanking the mobs in the crystal glow as a BLM lasted longer than that haha.

There was another almost-wipe because people decided to try and open the magitek terminals during battle in that room where you have to eat crystal explosions to do so. Yeah, two skeletons and a ghost + crystal boom boom = nah, not a great idea. Apparently they couldn't figure that out.

Last boss was very messy too but we managed. Barely. WHM thought it a good idea to stand on the front lines and eat the cleaves and apparently the NIN didn't believe in Limit Breaks, because I waited until 10% and I'm like "screw this, I'll use mine."

[Mavrias]

Isnip

think of it in terms of a priority system or a flow chart.

the first way this situation could have been avoided? dps didnt break the wall

second way? Healer has and uses surecast

third way? pld uses cover

obviously we've established that the pld in this case was just selfish. but an example in which theres a brd/mch is it the pally's fault for expecting the healers to... use their skills or dps to do mechanics properly?

[Alaray]

think of it in terms of a priority system or a flow chart.

the first way this situation could have been avoided? dps didnt break the wall

second way? Healer has and uses surecast

third way? pld uses cover

If both healers have surecast, then there's no protect. That's a problem.

You don't need surecast 100 percent, but protect assists the entire party and is a useful ability even if you think it's worthless. (Yes, you can apply and remove before a pull but that's a bit dependent on if you trust people not to die to weird things. And people will generally die to weird things).

Yes, the DPS screwed the pooch and deserve blame for getting rid of the box (or the other healer if it was their light, or the OT if it was their light... the light isn't a DPS only mechanic, nor are the ghost tethers).

The AST didn't do anything incorrect, however, by assuming a box would be available and not taking Surecast. Other classes in this game need a box to survive, so there shouldn't be a reason for there not to be one provided a fight goes cleanly. (And even if a fight is going cleanly, if you have a PLD, they should absolutely be utilizing Cover)

Even IF the AST took Surecast, the PLD should absolutely still be using Cover during the fight.


My point being:

* The DPS weren't pointed out as being troublesome, so if there was a complaint it's to my understanding they weren't being difficult about it.
* The PLD isn't using Cover. Period. Because of shield swipe. That's just terrible gameplay that this thread exists to vent about. The PLD was asked to use it, and the response was "no, my shield swipes" which isn't even an issue if a PLD is a decent player (because it can be weaved and you won't miss it if you're quick). If the response was "it's not available for this mechanic, because I'm using it on x for Head On" sure, that's fair, the utility is being used where it's generally expected to be used. But if it's not being used at all, and the PLD can save someone's life with it provided they're told fast enough to do so, they absolutely should in order to help the team. And if they're asked to utilize it there, and they aren't using it at any other point, well shit, why not? It's free.

It'd be like if I was playing PLD and refused to use Reprisal, Veil, Intervention, Cover, etc... all because I can't hit my buttons good and I want that extra GCD at the cost of party survivability. It's selfish, it works against the actual goal of the content, and frankly if you can't use these things and still put out the DPS you want, you need to work on general mechanical gameplay before caring about FFlogs leaderboards.

In the scenario, the PLD is absolutely deserving of this criticism because... why on earth... are you not... utilizing Cover at all.

[Mesarthim]

This one is more of a "people are weird" story.

I got Xelphatol on tank in roulette with sprout dps. Entire dungeon was easy and smooth. So about that weird part? During the second balloon section I mark the first balloon for priority and we kill it, after which I bolt to the other side after establishing aggro on the enemies the first one spat out. I mark the second balloon and start attacking it but everyone else was focusing the mobs. Balloon moves away and after the mobs die all 3 of them start walking towards the airstone device.

Meanwhile I'm sitting there by myself waiting for the balloon to come back and the 3 enemies it spits out. I was fighting them solo for a solid 10-15 seconds by myself while my party was at the airstone device getting the popup message of "you need an airstone."

I don't think I've ever had that happen before. I'm like g.... guys? I don't remember directing you guys over there.