No cleric stance, next should be no tank stance?

[Reinha]

Tank Stance is what allows MT/OT to even work in the first place. It's a switch you can flip between Tank and "DPS". It's kind of required to make it work.

But the MT only uses tank stance during the first few skills, if at all on pull. The rest of the time enmity is handled with Provoke and Shirk and both tanks are in dps stance.

[SendohJin]

Tank Stance is what allows MT/OT to even work in the first place. It's a switch you can flip between Tank and "DPS". It's kind of required to make it work.

half and half. stances for tanks exist so that it makes 2 tank parties easier to function. i wouldn't say it's required though, you can definitely rework all the abilities to still make them work, it just wouldn't be worth it. it's a good solution.

cleric stance is nothing like tank stances, since cleric stance has nothing to do with the other healer.

[SendohJin]

But the MT only uses tank stance during the first few skills, if at all on pull. The rest of the time enmity is handled with Provoke and Shirk and both tanks are in dps stance.

alliance raids say hi. you also can't rely on shirk in DF.

[Reinha]

alliance raids say hi. you also can't rely on shirk in DF.

I'm just going to repeat the point in my first post. Instead of passive stances we can easily choose to use the appropriate combo or skill to gain enmity (MT) or do more dps (OT and MT) assuming those skills are modified to account for lost stances.

[addz3]

Having opened the bag of worms in the other thread is say just remove the stances and make tanks use abilities. It will upset a few wars masquerading as dps but that's not a massive loss. Let those who want to tank tank and those who dps dps. Just get rid of stances for warrior and make it a dps and introduce another tank in 5.0

[Derio]

No. They would have to rework enmity completely. Otherwise tank swaps would be difficult

[RiyahArp]

Tank Stance is what allows MT/OT to even work in the first place. It's a switch you can flip between Tank and "DPS". It's kind of required to make it work.

actually you don't need it. You have DPS and enmity combos, and its possible not to pull hate even in tank stance solely by using the dps combo. It's not ideal because you lose DPS, but if you're in Eureka and you want to keep tank stance up as an off tank you can through not using your enmity combo and abilities.

As for tank stance, eh. Tank is already ez mode in this game, it doesn't need any more. Tank is one of the best things to play in new content or for unsure players because it generally has the least to do and can survive the most. I kind of wish they made it much harder if anything.

[kikix12]

The question is...why remove the stances?!

Cleric stance was removed (turned into a typical buf...) because it interfered with the job a healer is supposed to do. It was a can of worms with no real positives. Only artificial increase in difficulty of playing the class that is further messed up by purely technical issues (lag, ping etc.).

Tank stances have no such drawbacks. You can tank and you can DPS in both (or without any). The difficulty will increase or decrease accordingly...but it's technically possible. That means that tank stances add a VARIETY to the gameplay of a class. Want a more rewarding run at the cost of some difficulty increase?! Use DPS stance for tanking. Want easier, surer run even if it'll be somewhat slower?! Use the tank stance. Want a balance between the two?! Switch between them as necessary.

The only issue with tank stances is their balance that makes them less useful in that gameplay choice. In most cases it's just too easy to hold aggro even without tank stance, and provided your healer is up to the job you can switch it at close to no drawback (especially for a warrior).

They need to be rebalanced giving tank stances more impact and more purpose. Make it valid to switch them back and forth throughout the battle. At that point the stances will be a perfectly fine mechanic that add to the tanks something unique, rather than a "use and forget" skill, for the most part.

actually you don't need it. You have DPS and enmity combos, and its possible not to pull hate even in tank stance solely by using the dps combo. It's not ideal because you lose DPS, but if you're in Eureka and you want to keep tank stance up as an off tank you can through not using your enmity combo and abilities.

This is wrong. No tank should EVER use the enmity combo more than necessary to get a little ahead of the second highest hate holder. The main tank SHOULD use DPS combo as much as possible. And it have nothing to do with efficiency. These comboes also reward players with defensive bonuses (heal life, greater increase of the gauge etc.). An off-tank using tank stance interferes with a proper main tanking method by forcing the main tank to do something he never should, simply because someone generates pointless enmity for no reason at all.

[Ayer2015]

They could bake "tank stance" into the job base line and keep the dps stance. I could see that happening in 5.0 to make more room for new skills.
That said, jobs don't need any more dumbing down. I'm hoping 5.0 brings new mechanics and flavor to each of the jobs. The gauges from 4.0 were a start, but jobs need more differentiation.

[shao32]

No. They would have to rework enmity completely. Otherwise tank swaps would be difficult

Tank swaps are with provoke and shirk, tank stances do nothing there.