Lupin - make it a playable race!

[Alleo]

There is a marked difference between a humanoid race (which are the 'norm' in Eorzea, thus nobody would even so much as croak) and a legitimate beastrace popping up (who are, from an 'eorzean' PoV, usually antagonistic and, different from the Au Ra or Duskwights, banned from at least 2 starting Citystates, one outright and one more or less implied)

Someone like a Viera that was never seen before in Eorzea would still gain quite the attention which would not be shown with the MSQ. They dont react differently if you are race x. Yes it might stretch the belief more but they already showed with the Au Ra that they can bend the story quite a bit if they want to.

They could go with it different ways:

Only allow to change a player into Lupin after they crossed a certain story point. Could be explained ingame with a curse or something. But that would be bad for all those that wanted to play them from the start.
Or they could simply say that the WoL (who is from outside) has a very strong glamour thus does not look like a beastly race for others until a certain point where the story will have a reveal. (I mean we had to be fine with the "well I am not that person" then they should deal with us too)

Anyway if we take lore and story in account, we cant really get any new race without bending it even further.

[ArcaneCarbuncle]

Someone like a Viera that was never seen before in Eorzea would still gain quite the attention which would not be shown with the MSQ. They dont react differently if you are race x. Yes it might stretch the belief more but they already showed with the Au Ra that they can bend the story quite a bit if they want to.

Says who? You? The devs? The game? Seeing as there are Au Ra other than the WoL within Eorzean borders, some of probably having been in Eorzea longer then the WoL, I don't see why Viera would be something never seen before.
They didn't 'bend' the story, they did something that I'd call a 'soft-retcon': in Lore, Au Ra always were present, even in Eorzea; yes, they were rare, but far from unseen and unheard or 'unique'. The WoL is far from the first and only Au Ra, to ever come to Eorzea. Had they not drawn attention to the fact that they're 'new', that would have worked without a hitch. Again, a writing error, not necessarily a lore one.
They could introduce the Viera in 4.5 without character exclaiming loudly how oh-so-new they are and it wouldn't be a problem.
Seven hells, as of 4.3 they do officially exist and as far as the lore is concerned, they always did, just as the Au Ra did; they are just not native to Eorzea and thus rare there.
(And lets not forget that the WoL, canonically, isn't from Eorzea in the first place.)
No actual 'bending' needed.

I'll give you this: There is some Gameplay/Story segregation and Handwaving needed to make this work, i.e. you have to ignore to a certain extend that there are no Au Ra NPCs in ARR areas due to them obviously not existing from a gameplay standpoint; but from a lore standpoint they always did, with nothing pointing to the contrary.

And before somebody screams: "GOTCHA! If they can say the Au Ra/Viera have always been present in Eorzea, they can do the same to Lupin!"; no the really can't, cause if Lupins were always present the Eorzeans would likely know that there are 'civilized' beastman races and as such a complete ban on beastmen in Ul Dah for instance wouldn't be necessary (if anything, only a partial one). And if they for some reason didn't know (despite Lupin not being unheard of), they'd likely still have that ban and you'd have to explain why they'd lift it for your character specifically.

They could go with it different ways:

Only allow to change a player into Lupin after they crossed a certain story point. Could be explained ingame with a curse or something. But that would be bad for all those that wanted to play them from the start.
Or they could simply say that the WoL (who is from outside) has a very strong glamour thus does not look like a beastly race for others until a certain point where the story will have a reveal. (I mean we had to be fine with the "well I am not that person" then they should deal with us too)

Both of these would be incredibly cheap ways to do it, honestly.
The first one you already said yourself why. It would essentially provide a new race, however without all the exciting stuff attached to it like racial lore and gear. They'd just be some random cursed dude from whatever other race thats already ingame. Might as well go the Aion-route then by providing candy that turns the PC into a generic Lupin model temporarily, cause thats all the bang it would provide anyway.
For the second one I'd like you to justify why any new race should get a completely new story-aspect no other race gets. Cause if they pulled something like this they better do it well. To provide a complete minority of their playerbase that'd actually play them with playable puppypeople?
And when would that reveal even take place? earkly in the game? Late within the story when its mostly done for the next few months anyway? What if someone switches to Lupin rather late in the story; like most current players probably would? That would make the minority that would actually have a chance to see these new storyelements even smaller, at which point would it even be justified spending ressources on it?
Especially seeing that there are potential races around that wouldn't only require less work from a design standpoint, but also wouldn't require any heavy lore justifications to work.

Anyway if we take lore and story in account, we cant really get any new race without bending it even further.

I'll stress it again, if done well there is no actual lorebending involved.
The only situation where there'd be a problem is if lore stated that the current races are the only races to exist on all of Hydaelyn; something which we already know is not true.
Its not like they'd need to pull the figurative (and in case of Viera literal) Rabbit out of the Hat to explain a new race; there are still plenty of Areas we haven't been to yet, all with their own cultures and possibly races. We as players, and maybe even the devs, just don't know yet; which doesn't change that those places technically already exist in lore.
The Problem in this case isn't that they'd have to bend lore in general, its that they'd have to bend lore specifically for the Lupin (or beastraces in general); whereas a humanoid race like the Viera can just be, if they just let them exist organically without drawing attention to the fact that from a meta standpoint they are new.

Now, let me clarify here: I'm not saying Lupin or any beastman-races will never exist; if SE can find some magical creative way to make it work without having to pull some heavy retcons on the entire structural lore of the game, then Yay, you! Congratz! Have fun with your Playable Puppy People!
I'm also not saying Viera are definitely gonna happen.
What I AM saying is that, should SE come out of the woodwork tomorrow and confirm that there's a new race on the way, my money would definitely be on Viera, or at least a humanoid race, for various reasons.

Edit cause I didn't see this post before:

I believe many had pointed this before but:

Our Warrior of Light is always an outsider, always an exception. Since the first scenes on the game.

I wouldn't call this a problem, but the definition of a Beast Tribe is pretty broad on the game. Aside from their faces, Lupins have humanoid proportions, they hands looks like a human's, they feet fits a human shoe (in shape, not size), they wear clothes in hyur's fashion, and their culture seems the same as the Hyur's in Yanxia. Also, I believe the prejudice on the cities is aimed mostly at certain tribes than against non-humanoid people; the Wood Wailers have a beef with the Ixal, the Brass Blades with the Amalj'aa, while even Vylbrand tries to keep the peace with most of the kobold's legions.

So, yeah, I believe a Lupin would be an uncommon sight, but not one related to conflict like specific beast tribes.

I'm aware, thank you...

But if you believe that any average Eorzean would trust a dude with a Wolfhead and a maw big enough to bite their head of (no matter how 'human' the rest of their body is), then I believe you're overestimating said average Eorzean. The people in Gridania for instance were only 'friendly' to that Lupin from the Halloween event (that people love to bring up as some sort of proof of why Lupin would totally work) because they more or less thought he was a guy in costume like all of the other crazy figures running around.
Doesn't matter wether Lupin culture is the same as doman hyur, I doubt most eorzeans would know much about Doma other than the fact that it exists.
While it is true that the citystates indvidual prejudice is mostly aimed at specific beast tribes, there's still quite a bit of animostity against beast tribes in general; I for one highly doubt the Limsans would be very happy about an Amal'jaa on their doorstep, despite being both the most open-minded of the city states and Amal'jaa not necessarily being their main problem. Their hospitality stops where cute and non-threatening stops. And I highly doubt a Lupin would project much of that if you see one for the first time. And their sad excuse for 'peace' with the kobolds wouldn't help the Lupin in that situation either.
And don't even get me started on Gridania with their xenophobic tendencies and Ul Dah and their outright ban on Beast tribes in general. They'd probably just attack on sight.

Now, I'm gonna be fair here: There are also a lot of open minded people, like the GC Leaders and Minfilia, in Eorzea who might vouch for a friendly little dogdude, but they'd still have to get to those people. Currently you meet them throughout the storyline, but even starting that storyline takes you into the city, which I have already explained why I don't think is possible for some random Lupin.
Which means you'd likely have to give Lupins their own original starting storyline, which I simply don't see as something SE would do. Especially with easier-to-set-up race options available to them.

Oh, and 'uncommon sight' is an understatement; I for one know if I was some random average eorzean farmer and I'd come across a wandering Lupin I wouldn't just call them 'uncommon'; I'd call them scary. And then I'd run away. xD
Not everyone in Eorzea is a hardened adventurer.

[Rysir]

The end all be all is that race never was and never will be taken into account for story and the most we get is little comments such as the ones from the Kojin quest. Its excessive to get in a huff over this especially with lore reasons when the people who have the ability to add them can do whatever they wish to fit them in.

We are playing a game that ignores player race harder than skyrim which is a real feat. For any race being added if it happens then it happens, if it does not then it does not and it will as always ignore lore no matter what it ends up being. Its better to leave the lore talk to the lore section since when it comes to player race lore is painfully irrelevant.

[Nestama]

Exactly. Hell, not even Yugiri throughout the 2.2-2.5 quests takes note of you being an Au Ra, which she is trying to hide (aside from her tail). If SE really wanted to, they could have made some Au Ra exclusive cutscenes where Yugiri reveals herself sooner. They've done this before, but so far only Jobs and Alisae (there's apparently three kinds of cutscenes with her depending on your Coil progress) where cutscenes have different dialogue depending on what Job you are, or what progress you've made.

"But the lore" honestly stopped being a thing to me the second they let certain mounts fly. They try to make sense of it (Ananta sewing enchanted carpets onto elephants back, T-rex being over exposed to aether, etc), but it's really just an excuse.

[Trixie_Strider]

Change eye colour? Easy.
If you've seen the level 17 cutscene in Eureka, you'd know that Lupin are only really 'furry' around their heads. While still furry around their chest, you can actually see their muscles.
Probably borrow some from Miqo'te and Roegadyn (Au Ra males have a few Roegadyn voices, if I recall) as well as some new voices
Telling the difference between the genders is where it'll be tricky, unless they have a few different features to set them apart from the males (that do NOT make the females more human in appearance like some games tend to do)
Hairstyles is another thing.

You took my comment too literal, those wete not questions to be answered in a literal sense as it was questioned to bring up the lack of actual customization, for what I asked is virtually all that can be done for the Lupin

[Trixie_Strider]

Lets look at the Au Ra. What can you do with them? Well different skin conditions..I mean scales but barely anything with that. A ring in the eyes. Like four or so different horns (and with each of them one face) and a couple of different tails and their length. Honestly most of the character customization are already lacking and I had more than enough doubles where I was like "o.o is that me" here on the forum.

What can you do with lupins.

Different fur color -> Hair color
Different way that the fur looks (braids, longer fur, shorter fur) -> Hair style
Different snouts -> face change
Different tails and their lengths -> all the tail customization of other races
Different height -> height slider with all the other races

You just confirmed why the Lupin race is lacking while comparing it to a race that features things that destinguish them and sets them apart from one another.

What say the fur color? Do you honestly think it will have such a veriety of coats if it were not to follow the way the Beast Tribe looks in on itself. Also, different tails apply to all as well as height.

If this is all you had to come up with you might as well not have made the comment. Cause again, that's a lack of customization, the fact that they can't have hair is already a HUGE hindrance to the developing process.

Imagine a new player logs in and browses through the playable characters only to realise that between a Wolfman, a Kitty, and a dragonkin + etc. They'll most likely choose the few latter with more possibilities i.e not Lupin due to both lacking of REAL customization and low appeal

[Alleo]

Says who? You? The devs? The game? Seeing as there are Au Ra other than the WoL within Eorzean borders, some of probably having been in Eorzea longer then the WoL, I don't see why Viera would be something never seen before.

And yet Ishgard killed Sids parents in the past simply because they are Au Ra and Yugiri hid her face because she was one. Yet this was completely ignored in the story if you are an Au Ra yourself. You get no different kind of dialogue. The same if you are that one elezen race and start in Gridania. That is kinda bending the story to fit in the WoL and to not have to write different dialogue.

Well they already introduced one Lupin character in Gridania in one of the seasonal events. Which can be done by a low level either. So people did not need to be in Doma to see them first. Yes people first thought that this was just a costume but what will stop SE to just handwave it with a "after that more Lupins came and people started to at least trust them a bit". I mean they do that with other beast tribes that at least run around Limsa. Also lets not forget that one NPC in Eureka is a Lupin too, so they seems to have been at least in Sharlyan.

In the end if SE wants to introduce them they will find a way, even if it just bends the story a bit.

And Lupins are also still humanoid. They even wear the same clothes as the Domans and the only thing that stands out between them and other races is their head. They are probably the least beastly from all the beast tribes we have and seemingly even Garlemald does not count them as pure beast tribes otherwise they would not let them fight on their side. In the end they could justifiy them simply by telling us that more Lupins have traveled the world and that Sharlyan who has at least one of them, wrote about them as a none beast tribe. Exactly how they would do Viera. Just say that they always were there but that we could not see them and somehow the people are already fine with them, even though the story would only really makes sense after maybe the new 24 man raid. In the same way Lupins (after the event, which is now in the past and done) could have simply came to Eorzea and people got used to it but the WoL just did not see them before.

I fully agree with Rysir. We try to make sense for them in lore while the lore itself never cares what race or gender you are. Heck I have changed in my game from kitten, to Lala to Au Ra and never once did they comment on this. This game is really big in ignoring race and every baggage that normally comes with this.

@Trixie_Strider:

Well if having the same changeable customizations than other races (tail, ears, face, color) is lacking, what exactly will Viera bring to the table? If they are those Viera that people want (like Fran) then you might decide the ears, tail, lenght of it (but not much, at least for the tail) and what then? And I agree that most people will choose the other races but again if we only see the amount of numbers that people play them as a reason to bring them in, shouldnt we delete certain races from the game and woulndt that mean that we never need another race because we are just moving numbers around? Arent different races here to create diversity?

[Leloa]

Thats just as terrible of a suggested alternative as telling the people who want viera to just wear the bunny ears.

But it works and is better than your Viera excuse. Sure you won't be able to color your fur or eyes or adjust your ear size I guess but that is mostly what customs they will get. This would just be simpler for them to do because this would not be a race highly in command or used.

[Sigma-Astra]

I would honestly rather that they, oh I don't know.....add more depth towards their existing races than just blatantly shoehorn in another new race which will become just as lacking in lore and customization options as the rest of the races are already. They shoe-horned Au Ra into HW and we really didn't get anything else regarding their culture until SB. That's a bigger problem.

Meanwhile, the rest of other races from ARR are left to rot on the side. There's so much more that could be added to them rather than a new race completely.

[Nestama]

snip

...Is that you, Xeno?

Anyway, Viera lore in XII and Tactics Advance will most likely no be present in FFXIV (playable or not), as it would be (to me) pretty lazy to just copy-paste from one game to another. They'll likely do to them what they're doing to the Ivalice story: completely new lore and not Elezen/Padjal 2.0.

Also, skin/fur colour is a non-issue. Roegadyn Sea Wolves are just different shades of green, for example. Hairstyles is the only issue, but if SE are smart about it, they could use real dogs as an example (seriously, depending on the breed, some dogs are capable of having hairstyles if the owner chooses to). Alleo also mentioned braids.