Revelations from Patch 4.3

[Jonnycbad]

4.3 MSQ Ending:

It's clear that Zenos probably did a body swap with an Ascian, as his soul is now in the Katana-wielding Soldier, evident by how he was able to unleash a burst of aether from swinging his blade, and his banter about continuing the hunt from the one who defeated him. I imagine the Ascian infiltrated the Empire a while ago and made a pact with Zenos that should he be defeated, they will resurrect his body and swap bodies with him to further their goals. Only Ascians deal with summoning, so it's very clear that an Ascian is possessing Zenos' body, like how Lahabrea did with Thancred. What's more is that Zenos is always simple-minded and has a 1-track mind, whereas the "Zenos" we see in Asahi's flashback is a soft-spoken, well-spoken, and cunning man, as opposed to Zenos' gregarious style of speaking.

[Mieck]

Main Scenario Quests

Bit like the song at the end of Deadpool 2...

HO-LEE SH*TBALLS

Anyways, well done SE. Very decent chunk of story, even though plenty of the primal stuff was seen from a mile away. The Burn was a brilliant section, and I think it gives us pointers to our routes into Garlemald - through GaiusNotGaiusButReallyIsGaius "Shadowhunter" and via any ties Thancred manages to forge with counter-imperial elements (or, Populares elemnts, for that matter) in the empire's Western provinces.



Maybe they will give us Thancred roleplaying parts in the next few patches? That would be pretty awesome. And I think Zenos' body swapping into the soldier could be just like the Sahagin priest in 2.2, and we might be able to tick off another comparison between the artificial and real Echo, as opposed to any Ascian involvement.

Four Lords


Ivalice

So Goug is the lands the Garleans were forced from? I guess that's why they came back in this direction in the first throes of their conquest? Unfinished business...

Misc

[Reynhart]

4.3 MSQ Ending:

My opinion :

I wonder if it could not be Asahi that changed bodies. After all, he's also a Samourai, he's the one that just recently died, and the one who clearly has a grudge against us. Zenos took his own life with a smile on his face.

[Mysteltain]

My opinion :

I wonder if it could not be Asahi that changed bodies. After all, he's also a Samourai, he's the one that just recently died, and the one who clearly has a grudge against us. Zenos took his own life with a smile on his face.

I don't really think that's a possibility.

Asahi didn't have the Echo as far as we know. Plus, the soldier mentions the hunt which was Zenos' entire purpose in life.

[Reynhart]

I don't really think that's a possibility.

Asahi didn't have the Echo as far as we know. Plus, the soldier mentions the hunt which was Zenos' entire purpose in life.

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

[Iscah]

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

I think we're interpreting things differently. I also went back and checked the script for his exact words.

His actual lines:

...I have lost many things, but my mind is yet my own.
There upon the stage I stood, prepared to take my final bow, only to find that the finale was but an intermission...
Shall I use this chance to repent for my sins? Embrace goodness and mediocrity? Nay, I think not. While the one I yearn to face yet lives, the hunt must go on.

The framing it as a "performance" sounds much more like Zenos's willing death than Asahi's unexpected one. Also I never got any impression from this that Zenos was surprised to be dead, or had only recently come to the realisation.

My interpretation of it is that after "taking his final bow" he expected oblivion and instead found his soul still trapped in his now-dead body, but was later able to 'escape' and take over the unfortunate Resistance soldier, most likely someone tasked with handling the dead in the aftermath of the battle. So he's been lurking around for however long it's been since the liberation.

The question is, does Elidibus know that Zenos still exists, or is he a complete wildcard?

Also - as I've said in earlier discussions - whatever is going to happen with Zenos from here on, it has to be more interesting than simply defeating him again. There must be some kind of plot purpose for it.

I wonder if he might save us from another threat at some point? A "nobody gets to kill you except me" kind of thing.

Also possible that he *has* been doing a bit more soul-searching and feeling some regret for his past, if he feels he has to monologue about how he's not going to repent...

We dont know when all that happened. The disturbing of the grave did not mean that it was opened. As far as I can remember the people just wrote stuff on his grave but did not necessarily open it.

It's a specific plot point that they work out the grave must have been opened at the same point it was vandalised, but the external damage meant that nobody thought of checking to see if the grave itself had been disturbed.

[Reynhart]

I think we're interpreting things differently. I also went back and checked the script for his exact words.

I'll double check the lines in french but it felt far more casual talk when I saw that scene. With your quote, the first theory indeed makes a lot more sense.

[Rocl]

That's exactly why I think that

Zenos has studied the Echo, so he shouldn't be that suprised to not be dead, which the character certainly seems so. And the hunt was Zenos' purpose in life which he gladly abandonned when he happily killed himself.
And Asahi is probably the guy who wishes to pursue Zenos' goal, or, in that case, hunt. Besides, it should be quite some time since Zenos died lorewise, so I don't understand why he should only realize now that he's not dead.

I'm not sure I agree.

Zenos' data on the Echo comes from Gaius' reports and notes. The Scions et al. didn't discover the Echo allowed for someone to persist past death until like 2.2, really, when we see Elidibus' latest pet pawn in Wurr soulhop all around after being shot down by Merlwyb. At least, this is how I remember it, given that Through the Maelstrom was four real years ago it's possible my memory is betraying me. The point being that it feels like the Scions at large have learned more about the Echo since the 2.0 MSQ, which is when Gaius' notes should end.... and likewise that should be about the extent of Zenos' knowledge. It always felt likely to me that Aulus was spurred on by Elidibus or something in his work (I mean c'mon he jettisons our souls from our bodies, that's some really high tech stuff), and the whole "accidentally immortal" feels like a key point Elidibus would leave out.

TL;DR: It feels like Zenos' data should've been incomplete and his ignorance of the Echo transcending death feels somewhat fitting.