An alternative to parsing?

[Sebazy]

A couple of small clarifications:

You have stone sea sky to check your basic rotation and gauge improvements in damage.

SSS would have more merit if it gave any real feedback beyond 'you've done an amount of damage within a timer'. As is however, I just don't think it fits in with the difficulty of high end content at release. The lack of any meaningful feedback coupled with a complete inability to factor in team comps has had me thinking it's a half baked exercise from the world go.

The problem is that ACT is being used for things way beyond simple parsing. It's radar as far as hunts are concerned, and on top of that apparently now there's a plugin that lets people script with it? Thats pretty bad

Assuming you're talking about what I think you are, lets be clear that the two hunt radars I'm aware off have nothing to do with ACT, nor are either plugins for it. One is stand alone, the other was an addition to a rival parser that was popular early on in ARR but I suspect is now defunct. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken of course, but I suspect I am not.

The scripting thing is a different kettle of fish, I consider the author to be a good friend and don't doubt his intentions with it, that plugin has some great QOL stuff as well as some really cool functionality for streamers. The keypress on event thing could fairly be labeled as scripting though. Whilst I don't use it myself, I would immediately guess that it's got more implications for crafting than it does combat.

[Saikoh]

My problem with parsers isn't that they are used, it's that they do not tell the whole story but many are acting like they are the only thing that matters. They do not show who is helping or missing mechanics, they do not show who is more concerned with the win. They only show numbers. Too many groups end up relying on this to the point I once had a sch offer to show me how awesome her parser data was when I suggested she should really not be casting broil with 4 dead teammates.

[KaivaC]

My problem with parsers isn't that they are used, it's that they do not tell the whole story but many are acting like they are the only thing that matters. They do not show who is helping or missing mechanics, they do not show who is more concerned with the win. They only show numbers. Too many groups end up relying on this to the point I once had a sch offer to show me how awesome her parser data was when I suggested she should really not be casting broil with 4 dead teammates.

Actually...parse data does show stuff like that on the main site where this information is uploaded. Its more than just raw damage - it does show things like timelines, events, every cast time, who died and to what, what killed whom, etc. There's a ridiculous amount of information that you find on it.

[Saikoh]

Actually...parse data does show stuff like that on the main site where this information is uploaded. Its more than just raw damage - it does show things like timelines, events, every cast time, who died and to what, what killed whom, etc. There's a ridiculous amount of information that you find on it.

Showing what someone got hit by is not the same as showing who is attending to mechanics. This is an example of my point that some believe the parser is all, when it is just a measuring tool.

[Xtrasweettea]

Showing what someone got hit by is not the same as showing who is attending to mechanics. This is an example of my point that some believe the parser is all, when it is just a measuring tool.

On FFLogs there is a "replay" feature that allows people to watch a fight that was uploaded in the most minimalistic of terms. You are able to see when people move, when the mob moves, damage done, damage taken, healing done/received, abilities used by the mobs, etc.

So, yes, you can actually see who is not attending to mechanics using the data from FFLOGs, replay function, and deductive reasoning.

[Saikoh]

And once again a parser fan misses the point. People aren't worrying about people replaying their performance and seeing what they did or did not do. People are in party that only care about their numbers. Excessive reliance on a parser is very detrimental to team play.

[Dualgunner]

And once again a parser fan misses the point. People aren't worrying about people replaying their performance and seeing what they did or did not do. People are in party that only care about their numbers.

Numbers which are representative of one's performance. You do not know what people at large use the service for; my Ninja and I regularly look over what we did versus what others of our job did, how they optimized, and how we can better optimize for our group.

Am I claiming everybody uses it like this? No. I don't have the data. But neither do you.

Excessive reliance on a parser is very detrimental to team play.

Correct usage of a parser is very beneficial to team play.

[KaivaC]

And once again a parser fan misses the point. People aren't worrying about people replaying their performance and seeing what they did or did not do. People are in party that only care about their numbers. Excessive reliance on a parser is very detrimental to team play.

That's just not true, because World First teams have often used it in their own progressions. I'm not sure what kind of parties you have been in or what kind of players that you have played with, but over-reliance on numbers is not the usual case. The logs available now are perfect for comparing what the top guys are doing to what you're doing. As far as numbers go, numbers are important. Just this morning, I went into V5S and our DPS was so low that we couldn't even kill the chimney. All of us asked if anybody was running a parse to find out who was not contributing enough so we could work on it together - and this was a PUG group.

What you are talking about are likely parse groups and speed kill groups, which...yeah, those groups only care about numbers. But again, those really are not representative of the majority. Many groups are satisfied with just having a good and getting the weekly clear out of the way.

To be clear, it's not allowed. It's a 3rd party program, it is explicitly banned. Using ACT, mods, any 3rd party programs that interact with the game or the game's data in any way, is against the ToS.

It's not explictly allowed, hence why there is a don't ask, don't tell policy that is generally adhered to that a lot of people follow. There's not really much of an issue as long as folks aren't going around and harassing people about their DPS. Nobody here is really arguing that it's against ToS. That much, we all acknowledge. The point of the thread, however, is to discuss alternatives that could be somewhat effective at replicating a little bit of what parsers do, like a compromise.