Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[Reinha]

Gil being created and entering the market that way is not the only thing that causes prices to go up.

When people's gil savings are distributed to players who want to spend the gil, there will be buyers with purchasing power (demand) that weren't there before. Player with excess gil saved up is not creating demand for items because he isn't going to spend the gil (it's excess). The poor player who buys that gil only buys it with the intention to spend it, and so demand for items on the market is increased.

Same amount of supply + more demand = higher prices. This affects everyone who participate in the market and not just those who want to RMT for convenience.

[Zojha]

Edit: Semi Ninja'd by ^

If you increase the generation of gold you'll get inflation, this is why in FFXIV servers with more bot-generated gil everything is expensive, but in Balmung and JP servers everything is cheap, there's a low amount of bot-farmed gold in those servers.

Yes and no. Prices do not automatically go up just because the amount of money in the system goes up, because the price is still regulated by supply and demand.

In the first step of inflation, people get more money. If they all put that extra money into a sock under their bed, none is any the wiser and the economic life continues without anything happening, because nothing "is" happening except you having painted paper in your sock. Most people however want to buy something with it instead, so the demand at every price level goes up. The supply is still the same. Higher demand, same supply? Rising prices until the demand is back to what it was before, except at a higher price level.

In FFXIV, sub tokens would cause significant price inflation, because all that "sock money" people have accumulated would be dumped into the economy and get used.

[Tridus]

Of course, prices going up across the board isn't harmful in itself. Someone selling stuff will make more money from that, so as soon as you can sell something that someone wants, you benefit all the same. It makes other stuff in game proportionally easier, as the fixed costs (like teleport) don't really go up.

[Ayer2015]

If you really do not understand, why not read some posts explaining it?

You clearly either didn't read what I wrote, or didn't comprehend the meaning....
i'm aware of what P2W is, and a market-board app isn't that. Buying gil would give no real advantage either in this game. Gear is so easy to obtain it is almost ridiculous.

[alimdia]

You both are assuming a scenario where supply stays the same and only item demand increases, but with gil now having a bigger purpose more people would get into the market to make gil for sub tokens. Yeah like mentioned before there would an initial dump of gil from people currently hoarding it, but the market should to balance itself once people start selling stuff for gil. This isn't the first game to add this type of system and all of your fears always end up being unfounded in those games.

I feel like an economy where gil is circulating is healthier than one where people just hoard gil for no reason, that's an unintended gil sink and I doubt the game is designed around having those massive gil sinks.

[Rabbtit]

If you buy the story progression items, you get 300k, so that counts, right?

[Colt47]

They killed materia market the moment you could recycle materia, get it from eureka, get it with clusters and hunting seals and generally giving tons for free during SB levelling.
The materia market is literally crying on my server, I personally used to sell materias once now it's really not worth it, I used them to pentameld my gear and that's about it.

Frankly I never had to rely on anyone from SB launch for food/potions/craft, which honestly is a bit problematic as I said

The problem I have with materia is that you should be able to just stick them in your armor like gems in WoW. Instead they made it convoluted by having to either go to a crafter or an npc to meld it. Then there is the whole concept of "over melding" that I don't get. On top of which, I've never had a reason to use materia. Food and materia alike feel very "win more" and have more so become a source of income for me, especially since the armor just doesn't last long enough to justify decking it out in luxury items that sell for 50k sometimes on the market boards.

[Airget]

Too many people are saying pay to win only applies if it gives you a combat advantage in the hardest content.

So if that's the case, can we please buy gil? Having gil isn't going to make Ultimate Coils harder, so why not do it?

(I really wish we had a solid definition for what pay to win means)

There is a flaw to your logic. The App, which will give players a way to buy/sell on their phone using the currency provided is not the same as adding gil into the game by buying it.

Buying gil inflates the value of gil. If people say buy 10mil gil each, suddenly a 100k minion jumps up in price to 2million because the gil economy has been inflated.

The same can not be said for what this app does, which allows you to use an app to buy/sell items without needing to be at your computer/ps4 to log into your character and do it from there.

[Zojha]

I feel like an economy where gil is circulating is healthier than one where people just hoard gil for no reason, that's an unintended gil sink and I doubt the game is designed around having those massive gil sinks.

I can agree, but then we shouldn't talk about sub tokens, but about the economic set-up and why gil doesn't circulate without them in the first place.

Self-sufficiency for example. Self-sufficiency is the bane of money circulation, because self-sufficient people don't need to buy anything from other people anymore, but they are still able to sell them something they can't get on their own. Inflow exceeds outflow, gil accumulates.
This also pertains to people who simply don't care for anything the MB has to offer, like DoW/DoM that only play on tomes and never buy raid food/glamour/minions or anything else. They will also accumulate gil via the system, as repairs/teleports don't suffice to drain it.

Crafters in general sit at the end of the food chain and when they incur losses due to input factors becoming expensive, they can commonly tax it in the price of the end product, preventing them from making real losses, which causes gil to accumulate on them. See above, same reason.

The economy further isn't balanced. There's a lot of DoW/DoM, but only relatively few DoH/DoL. This causes DoH/DoL markets to be far less competitive than they should be and thus inefficient - Again, crafters and gatherers derive a benefit from that and gil accumulates.
In classic economic theory, that would naturally balance out until the gains/time of all disciples and in fact, all money generating activities would be equal, but it hasn't and never will, because against classic economic theory, people are not perfectly rational.

These are all issues that would need to be addressed if we wanted a healthy economy where gil circulates naturally. Truth be told, I doubt people really want that. Cynic ole me wagers people are more interested in abusing that system for their own benefit, rather than fixing it for all.

You would also have to re-balance gil gains from the system, because they are currently far, far too high. If only half of Balmung did its Trial roulette, that'd be 100.000.000 gil generated. Potentially daily. Just one roulette. Yikes!

The reason for that is relatively simple: It's a mixture of the issues mentioned above. DoW/DoM are disadvantaged on the market (High competition, few goods to sell, most people have a DoW/DoM themselves and are thus self-sufficient for DoW/DoM goods etc), so they are given a lot more system based gil inflow to allow them to still participate as buyers. Fixing the gil flow would no longer make that a necessity and allow for a drastic reduction of gil inflow.

And then you should probably do something about the inflation as well, because people who are not actively playing the markets or are new to the game are the big losers of the whole thing - As you noticed yourself, in order to compensate for the inflation, you'd have to become a seller, which isn't necessary right now.

Or you can just leave it all as is and rejoice in the fact that people are eagerly offering themselves as gil sponges. Plus, it's starting to drift off-topic.

[Vstarstruck]

You both are assuming a scenario where supply stays the same and only item demand increases, but with gil now having a bigger purpose more people would get into the market to make gil for sub tokens. Yeah like mentionedbefore there would an initial dump of gil from people currently hoarding it, but the market should to balance itself once people start selling stuff for gil. This isn't the first game to add this type of system and all of your fears always end up being unfounded in those games.

I feel like an economy where gil is circulating is healthier than one where people just hoard gil for no reason, that's an unintended gil sink and I doubt the game is designed around having those massive gil sinks.

OFC it will balance out eventually, but it does not change the fact you are going to see huge price fluxuations at its release because of horded gil being circulated.

You clearly either didn't read what I wrote, or didn't comprehend the meaning....
i'm aware of what P2W is, and a market-board app isn't that. Buying gil would give no real advantage either in this game. Gear is so easy to obtain it is almost ridiculous.

If you think this app is not P2W then you do not know what P2W means, you either didn't read what I wrote, or didn't comprehend the meaning. The bold only proves further you do not understand what P2W is, that is not the point. You pay IRL MONEY for an advantage, it is that simple, retainers and this app is P2W. It is not a hard concept.

I will give you some credit though, at least you ae being constant in your view. buying gil is not P2W so let us buy gil.. lol (even if I disagree with this idea since your paying IRL money that impacts game balance, in this case economic one, that is poorly balanced in the first place.)