Quality of Life Improvements and MSQ Gating for New Players

[Rufalus]

The best thing they can do is just add more new content that new players and endgame players can do together like potd and pvp; things that are unlocked early and don't require an item level. Msq just has to be do it or buy a skip because restructuring progression would take too much dev time.

[bass9020]

I've played the astrologian and machinist quests, and the stories are so heavily set within Ishgard. They can't just be relocated - they would have to be completely re-written, and I think it would break those stories.

That said, obviously they learned from it and put the Stormblood expansion jobs in more accessible locations, but they planned it from the start, and the story (or at least what I've experienced of red mage so far) still seems tied to Stormblood rather than ARR.

And personally I'm *much* happier to start those jobs from Lv30/50 than have another several classes to grind up from Lv1. I understand how it's frustrating for newcomers who want that as their main class, but I can also see how frustrating it would be for long-time players if new jobs were released with the new expansion but have to be leveled all the way up to current MSQ level before they can start playing as that class for the story.

I agree, I was mostly giving examples for possible things SE could do that would be a solution for both groups. It could be a possible middle ground that I think would appease most players.

I mentioned moving them to Coerthas Central Highlands temporarily since thats when you first go there for the main story and I think its around the lvl35ish mark? I could be wrong. Still keeping it at lvl30 and not 1 is also ideal.

Again though this type of restructuring would probably be too much for SE, it would have to be done carefully and again not butchering it so the story stays intact.

[TwistedTea]

I don't think you could call a game story driven if unlocking content had little connection to it...

I've come to love this game. I've watched the documentary about the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 and much more about this game.

Your statements are basically, "We slogged it out with all its imperfections and you should do so too!"

No thank you, I'll keep 'harping' on about how the new player experience can be improved, not just because I love this game but because I'm also a paying customer.

And clearly, the new player experience can be improved.

[Iscah]

I agree, I was mostly giving examples for possible things SE could do that would be a solution for both groups. It could be a possible middle ground that I think would appease most players.

I mentioned moving them to Coerthas Central Highlands temporarily since thats when you first go there for the main story and I think its around the lvl35ish mark? I could be wrong. Still keeping it at lvl30 and not 1 is also ideal.

Again though this type of restructuring would probably be too much for SE, it would have to be done carefully and again not butchering it so the story stays intact.

That's the thing - I don't think the story *could* stay intact. Or at least it would have to be heavily changed. The plots are set in Ishgard and, beyond level 50, in places only accessible once you're well into Heavensward.

And if you rewrote it with an 'alternate' storyline for people who wanted to take it up early, what happens to the original version? Are players forced to choose (or only learn later that there was a choice at all) whether to get the "early access" plot now or the "proper" version in Ishgard?

It's one thing to plan from the start and develop a story that could be set in Coerthas to begin with (as they did with the SB jobs) but as they are now, you would lose too much by trying to rewrite them to be set in a location they were never intended to take place in.


Ultimately I feel like it's just a consequence of "starting late". If I was playing back when ARR was all there was of the game, I wouldn't have the option to use those classes. Once I've worked my way through ARR and into Heavensward, I've unlocked the ability to use them at the same point in my game-experience that other players first got access to them.

[KisaiTenshi]

While starting secondary classes at a higher level would be nice, I think this sounds like the first part of the game would have very boring combat.

Easier solution would be just to have classes start higher, maybe at level 10 (since that's the level when you're first allowed to change classes).

The idea behind this was to avoid the present minor-problem where a player starts in one location but doesn't like what they initially picked and can't change it till level 10 anyway. Instead just straight up create a freelancer class that you can stay in until level 15 (you can change it right at level 1 if you want,) when you can reach all the areas by airship and thus have no problem changing the class. That is also the point at which the first dungeon is available and you can not enter it without a DPS/Tank/Healer job. Hence if you level to 15 and then decide to activate every job to figure out what you want to play then you can try them all out on the first dungeon and not just the PvE content, which is what people complain the most about anyway. The Freelancer class also gives crafters/gatherers an option to do nothing but crafting if they don't want to commit to the storyline.

However I really think AST, MCH, DRK, SAM and RDM should have been level 1 options. Because when we're talking about parts of the game that are a slog to get through, getting through the job quests without being able to to do any of the duties IS a slog. Like, how I'd see it work is that regardless of what you pick, switching to anything else automatically brings it to level 15 if you didn't previously have it, but doesn't complete the quests for them.

It's a problem that "other games" don't have because other games don't let you change classes/jobs/races so they have less artwork to create. WoW and their clones, if you want to see all of the story, you have to create a minimum of one character per faction and in the case of WoW, there's like several characters per side, and some of those have splits well past the "beginning" of the game, so it's not a simple matter of playing the beginning of the game a dozen times. Hence a game like WoW who offers a free MSQ skip pot, does so because because you are otherwise forced to play the story repeatedly. So that is a -lot- of grinding if you're not going to commit to that race/class. FFXIV you can change your job at any point. So there is no sunk cost in switching. You don't need to make another character to see all of the storyline unless you really want to see the starting quests for each city, which effectively end at level 15. You can change your GC as well, so that's not a permanent commitment either (it took me one day to clear everything back up to Second Lt.)

[Awha]

Try completing castrum and praetorum now with people running it cuz they HAVE to complete it... now try the same dungeons when it's not needed except for those who choose the story.... you will never get past that point... and NO you can't return the cs skip option in those dungeons because the people doing it would be doing it for the story and would watch the cs... so there's one example of how removing the mandatory story quest would effect people who choose the msq....

So you are saying that people will have a hard time doing story quests because less players will want to do them if SE did hit the magical button that removed all the story / quest restrictions for those that desire it.

That's the thing - I don't think the story *could* stay intact. Or at least it would have to be heavily changed. The plots are set in Ishgard and, beyond level 50, in places only accessible once you're well into Heavensward.

If a player does not care about the story and currently rushes through it I do not think they would care about the plot. It will just come down a choice, get a watered down disjointed experience or play the game the way it was meant to be intended. If a player is only interested in playing with friends and raiding and had no interest in the story I do not think they would care for what reason they are in Ishgard. Granted this will never happen since it really in the eyes of SE it is not worth the effort and man hours that would be needed to handle such a taste. Just figured it would be interesting to see how people would respond if SE had a hypothetical button that removed all the story / quest restrictions for those that desire it.

[SannaR]

They would have to rework how npcs that are linked to the msq and some of the side stories work as they only appear at certain locations if you have certain boxes checked. Also end game stuff since part of this thread was friends who wanted to do end game things with those who are waiting for the next patch is totally optional and you don't need anything from the raids as you can clear anything without said gear. The vendor that sells the accessories in Ishgard would have to change if the msq was optional since they only sell level 51 and 60. Is not registering HW n SB a poor option so that you won't be locked out of new skills? Yes, but you don't need and can't use those skills anyway if you're going through the story and are enjoying it and you haven't reached the content you can use them in. There are many generous people out there.

[Penthea]

Your statements are basically, "We slogged it out with all its imperfections and you should do so too!"

No it's "if the majority can do it without disliking it to the point of feeling compelled to complain about it, then it's not the big problem you think it is"

I never once said that tolerating msq gating is a rite of passage. I argued that it's central to the game and the vast majority don't take issue with it.

[SannaR]

The reason the HW and SB jobs aren't level one is because they're JOBS not classes. Even the ARR jobs start at 30. The monk quest line from 60-70 explains how a pugilist is NOT a monk. The only job that is new is mch. This gets stated more than once in the 30-60 quest line and it's soul stone. Each time you unlock a job you get told some form of "oh hey you've got a knack for this and I might know some one who's looking for a capable person with our skill set". Or it's an oh you seem to know how to fight you want to try this out? Except ninja where you hear odd rumors that you need to go check out and then it falls into the "Oh hey you have skills" track. Heck part of the reason in 1.0 that you couldn't join the Musketeer guild is that you didn't have training with a gun. Course now we have mch but we still won't be allowed to join the guild because SE is done with making classes. Speaking of optional msq smn would get screwed as it gets skills tied to and it's story brings up msq a lot.

[Zojha]

I argued that it's central to the game and the vast majority don't take issue with it.

That's natural, no?

The MSQ is mandatory. If you want to stick with the game, you need to be able to tolerate it, because you have to do it. If you can't, you'll quit, because you have to do something you can't tolerate. The people who disliked it a lot simply didn't stick with the game and naturally don't come around to complain. They're just gone.