Mogtalk interview with yoshi p

[Bourne_Endeavor]

"Whenever we create a high-difficulty boss battle, we tend to include instant-death mechanics"

Maybe they should stop being lazy with their high-end content and not use these as a crutch for challenge. That's always been one of the most frustrating things about FFXIV. There are tons of MMOs they could take inspiration from that have challenging fights that *don't* lean on instant-death mechanics.

The reason they depend so heavily on instant-death mechanics is due to how insanely strong healing potencies are. Simple raid wide AoEs are rarely threatening because all three healers can bring players back to max HP in seconds or simply rely on Regen ticks since not enough happens to warrant a full heal.

[Cidel]

Oh hey, there's some talk about PvP:

-Also, I am thinking of eventually holding a tournament...

...there needs to be a very clear set of regulations... and we need to establish rules that will not allow for any foul play.

Caution, anyone unlucky enough to actually get caught breaking the rules in this tournament might get disciplinary action taken against them probably maybe possibly 3 whole seasons later. And that's if they're brazen enough to talk about it in the chat logs.

[Tridus]

Oh hey, there's some talk about PvP:






Caution, anyone unlucky enough to actually get caught breaking the rules in this tournament might get disciplinary action taken against them probably maybe possibly 3 whole seasons later. And that's if they're brazen enough to talk about it in the chat logs.

By "foul play" he means "potty mouth". Say something mean, and you'll be banned instantly. Cheat your pants off and they'll maybe look into it at some point.

[Granyala]

The reason they depend so heavily on instant-death mechanics is due to how insanely strong healing potencies are. Simple raid wide AoEs are rarely threatening because all three healers can bring players back to max HP in seconds or simply rely on Regen ticks since not enough happens to warrant a full heal.

Thank god!
Nothing feels more frustrating than a healing design like WoW, where you spend your majority casting weak ass heals that barely manage to move the HP bar. >.<

[Zojha]

Nothing feels more frustrating than a healing design like WoW, where you spend your majority casting weak ass heals that barely manage to move the HP bar. >.<

Now, if only we could get a DPS design that can one-three shot anything so DPS can get the same kind of health bar moving satisfaction.

Breaking the game? Maybe. But less frustrating than looking at a boss bar barely move. And we could just, like, add more mob waves or something to compensate. Then DPS could also have that downtime feeling of healers between them, where they could throw out a group buff or heal. And we could have an endless forum debate about DPS not healing/buffing during downtime. The joy!

[RiyahArp]

Now, if only we could get a DPS design that can one-three shot anything so DPS can get the same kind of health bar moving satisfaction.!

If a DPS needed to get a boss down to 0 HP in 3 seconds or they risked wiping the raid, ok. If you want healing to be like a DPS rotation, you'd really get some boring fights.

I would like to think there exists a balance between "weak ass heals" and heals so strong, you'll spend far more time DPSing.

Get your red mage up to 70, try vercuring some. That's probably what, 50-75% of a healer cure potency, and the first thing you notice is that it's a weak ass heal. It's only real benefit is that it can be instant; notice there's never any "only rdm to heal" clears posted anywhere.

With dedicated healers, the potency would have to be even lower due to HoT and off gcsd. You'd have to make it 3-5k effective HP to more or less force healers to use heals, and you;d need to nerf off gcd healing a lot. SCH in particular would need to be gutted, since it relies mainly on non-direct cures.

You guys really don;t sit down and actually think what stuff like this may mean in practice. It's easy to say "healing potency is too much" but you need to sit down and actually post some kind of rough model people can agree or disagree with; not just say something needs to happen and not define a plan.

edit: like one particular mode of mmo playing is the "builder." A healer would do a small, low potency cure to build resources to spend on higher potency cures or attacks. Essentially instead of hitting the aetherflow button, you need to cast a 2k potency physick for maybe 30 sec to a minute to proc your stacks, then you have your spike cures or burst cures for upcoming attacks. But building modes of play are kind of sedate and slow, really.

[Tridus]

You guys really don;t sit down and actually think what stuff like this may mean in practice. It's easy to say "healing potency is too much" but you need to sit down and actually post some kind of rough model people can agree or disagree with; not just say something needs to happen and not define a plan.

I played WoW for years with those "weak ass heals", and their "stronger but healers still heal nearly full time" earlier incarnations, including in progression content. I know how it plays. Healers actually healed. Fights could kill you with one shots, with people eating avoidable but not lethal damage until you went OOM trying to keep up, and such.

The idea that this is some revolutionary insane concept is silly when the biggest MMO to ever exist does that exact thing to a higher degree than what's being proposed. You know what wasn't a thing in WoW? Healers spending 80% of their time DPSing and not healing.

I tend to think healers should spend more time healing than DPSing, and want a healing design to support that. Crazy stuff, right there.

[RiyahArp]

I played WoW for years with those "weak ass heals", and their "stronger but healers still heal nearly full time" earlier incarnations, including in progression content. I know how it plays. Healers actually healed. Fights could kill you with one shots, with people eating avoidable but not lethal damage until you went OOM trying to keep up, and such.

The idea that this is some revolutionary insane concept is silly when the biggest MMO to ever exist does that exact thing to a higher degree than what's being proposed. You know what wasn't a thing in WoW? Healers spending 80% of their time DPSing and not healing.

I tend to think healers should spend more time healing than DPSing, and want a healing design to support that. Crazy stuff, right there.

Then go play WoW, because trying to make that happen here would break the game.

They'd have to rebalance every single encounter in this game for a much lower, slower level of healing, and reduce a lot of spike damage in frequency and severity, as well as not limit the fights to 8 man instances with very strict enrages. You are asking for a nerf to every healing class, forcing them to spend a lot more effort to do their basic job-healing, with no benefit. I mean literally no benefit to them; reducing one hits isn't going to help any if my healing now needs a pretty strict rotation, and a slower wipe is a wipe just the same. You can maybe mitigate this by adding support abilities and keeping heals high potency but OGCD only, but that's such a radical change that would be on the level of HW bard.

I mean, ffs, the game works fine as is. The only issue with healing potency is in pvp. People need to stop suggesting changes that would break the game for no real defined goal.

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Except my retort was explaining why DPS don't need that and healers do.

I have red mage at lvl70, poorly geared to boot at item level just barely above 300. I still heal 10000 out of ~40000-50000HP that tanks with higher than me item level have. That's A LOT. Recently I was in a party where the healer did get disconnected. I managed to keep the party alive and sending an attack or two in the middle. Sure, I didn't get to heal the members to full HP or anything, just barely kept them alive...but I was not a healer. Of course, this was only in a dungeon, and I think lvl60 one. But hey.

Go try sustain healing with that. You find quickly it's not enough.

Of course there's never any clears posted with red mages being the sole healers. Why?! Every heal that red mages use IS A DPS LOSS. Why would a red mage cast heals if they can deal more damage than the healer can with every cast, and on top of that the healer can cast only ONE heal for a similar effect that the red mage needs TWO? Red mages are able to solo-heal a LOT of content. But it's STUPID for them to do it when the party WILL have a healer.

you clear with it because you want the challenge, like clears with pld. And no, they cannot solo heal a lot of content. The tank gets hit by a 25k tankbuster, and you will get overwhelmed in time unless its a very easy fight.

[Tridus]

Then go play WoW, because trying to make that happen here would break the game.

I've told you a billion times to stop exaggerating.

They'd have to rebalance every single encounter in this game for a much lower, slower level of healing, and reduce a lot of spike damage in frequency and severity, as well as not limit the fights to 8 man instances with very strict enrages. You are asking for a nerf to every healing class, forcing them to spend a lot more effort to do their basic job-healing, with no benefit. I mean literally no benefit to them; reducing one hits isn't going to help any if my healing now needs a pretty strict rotation, and a slower wipe is a wipe just the same. You can maybe mitigate this by adding support abilities and keeping heals high potency but OGCD only, but that's such a radical change that would be on the level of HW bard.

No they wouldn't. Certain fights would need retuning. Most wouldn't, especially when they're old and vastly outgeared already anyway. Instead of it taking 2.5 seconds to recover from something, it'd take 5. Then I'm back to DPSing. Half the time no more damage is coming in that few seconds anyway, so it makes no difference whatsoever except lower healer DPS. And since people are so fond of telling us that they don't factor healer DPS into designing encounters, having less of it won't affect anything, right?

I mean, you seriously think that Xelphatol, the dungeon of 82% DPS time for healers, is going to suddenly break when that number drops to 60%? That's hilarious.

I mean, ffs, the game works fine as is. The only issue with healing potency is in pvp. People need to stop suggesting changes that would break the game for no real defined goal.

For certain definitions of "works" and for a very clearly defined goal. If you think "healers should spend more time healing than DPSing" is too complicated, then I really can't help you.

[kikix12]

If a DPS needed to get a boss down to 0 HP in 3 seconds or they risked wiping the raid, ok. If you want healing to be like a DPS rotation, you'd really get some boring fights.

Pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Get your red mage up to 70, try vercuring some.

I have red mage at lvl70, poorly geared to boot at item level just barely above 300. I still heal 10000 out of ~40000-50000HP that tanks with higher than me item level have. That's A LOT. Recently I was in a party where the healer did get disconnected. I managed to keep the party alive and sending an attack or two in the middle. Sure, I didn't get to heal the members to full HP or anything, just barely kept them alive...but I was not a healer. Of course, this was only in a dungeon, and I think lvl60 one. But hey.

It's only real benefit is that it can be instant; notice there's never any "only rdm to heal" clears posted anywhere.

Of course there's never any clears posted with red mages being the sole healers. Why?! Every heal that red mages use IS A DPS LOSS. Why would a red mage cast heals if they can deal more damage than the healer can with every cast, and on top of that the healer can cast only ONE heal for a similar effect that the red mage needs TWO? Red mages are able to solo-heal a LOT of content. But it's STUPID for them to do it when the party WILL have a healer.