Eureka is meant for casual players.

[otarolgam]

I've gone from a Mid-core interest in this game to being extremely casual (due to other players not knowing how to play their g'damn classes).

Eureka has broken me. I've been on and off, on mostly just to roleplay (despite doing that rarely as well...), but when the newest content that comes out only amounts to hitting HP sponges and collecting thousands of items to trade in for weapons that won't be relevant come next patch...

Monster Hunter World has spoiled me too much and I'd rather pay the monthly PSN price to keep playing that masterpiece than play a game in which the developer is telling me "You don't know what you want, shut up and do this menial shit."

[Vstarstruck]

I've gone from a Mid-core interest in this game to being extremely casual (due to other players not knowing how to play their g'damn classes).

Eureka has broken me. I've been on and off, on mostly just to roleplay (despite doing that rarely as well...), but when the newest content that comes out only amounts to hitting HP sponges and collecting thousands of items to trade in for weapons that won't be relevant come next patch...

Monster Hunter World has spoiled me too much and I'd rather pay the monthly PSN price to keep playing that masterpiece than play a game in which the developer is telling me "You don't know what you want, shut up and do this menial shit."

It is not even relevant now, it was released outdated.
to TC:
Also this is not casual content, it takes too much time

1. Time invested. The highest level item should be the thing you spend the most amount of time on. It can take days/weeks of constant grinding to acquire a relic weapon. In FFXI it took years. You can claim that it takes 7 weeks to acquire a raid weapon, but everyone knows you're not grinding out 7 whole weeks. You're logging in on reset day (or whatever day your static picked) getting your raid group together, doing the raid(s), and you're done until the next week. It's a sure thing if you beat said fight, which can be learned in a relatively short time. Seems to me, the more "casual" player is the raider. While the more "hardcore" player would be on every day grinding away at their relic.

2. Not everyone raids. It may seem like the most awesome end game content a person can do, to a raider, but a lot of people simply don't care for raiding. That's not to say they can't do it. It's to say they don't care to do it. They should have an option to get gear on their own terms, and through an optional route. If it's a long grind, then it should produce greater gear. And that loops back around to #1.

3. Because I say so. You can arbitrarily set the bar at "3 reasons why," but the first two are really all the explanation needed. Alternative routes for good gear is not too much of an ask in an MMO. But the trick always goes back to the time invested vs the reward. More time invested should always produce higher gear than someone learning 1 fight and doing it 7 times.

1. You cannot compare FFXI relics to FFXIV. Some people took 1-4 years to make them yes, but though trials people still use them 10 years later. Trying to compare FFXI relics to FFXIV is like saying Mount Everest is comparable to Olympus Mons just because they are the tallest mountains of their respective planets. For simple argument sake relics where pretty much the best.. at lest for melee.. well...relics where the best when used properly for all classes but casters. In this game, you released relics subpar vs easy to get crafted gear (weapons) or same as crafted gear/ even with sigma, both take tiny amounts of time. If you are implying relics should be the same as top raider weapons' I agree or at least comparable, like 365 or 370, and allow them be 375 as it gets closer to new raid.

[TarynH]

1. You cannot compare FFXI relics to FFXIV.

That's all you took from that? I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm simply stating that in games where the "grind" weapon is supposed to be the end all, it usually is. And it usually is, because of the time invested. FFXIV relics are also a longer grind than learning a raid. In my opinion, the raid weapons are the third shortest route, and should be the 2nd highest.

Relic
Raid
Tomes/Crafted (since they continually want to place craft items in with tomes)

That should be the order at all stages, based on current history of time spent acquiring one. But instead, with this game, it's all over the place. And it constantly causes unwanted conflict between controversially-named "hardcore" and "casual" players.

If there was true equality in the game's gear, there would be alternative routes to acquire same-level gear in all stages. But instead we have arbitrary values placed on all of it, and it's always a vertical progression, with each set being in its own vacuum. There is no lateral progression at all.

[Vstarstruck]

That's all you took from that? I'm not comparing the two at all. I'm simply stating that in games where the "grind" weapon is supposed to be the end all, it usually is. And it usually is, because of the time invested. FFXIV relics are also a longer grind than learning a raid.

With your comment of "this is all you took from that" I am shocked you did not get into what I thought was your main point

[TarynH]

With your comment of "this is all you took from that" I am shocked you did not get into what I thought was your main point

Glad I can still surprise people? =P

[Vstarstruck]

Glad I can still surprise people? =P

Did I get your main point though? like to be sure.

See the issue here is raids have some sort of time gate, and even the heaviest of grinds can be beat by nolifers in a day or 2 of 24/7 play. So the thing here is, they can RELEASE relics to be on par or beat (with the timing of this release the highest SHOULD of have been at least 265, no reason why have the final stage under perform a causal gained weapon that is 15 ilevels higher. Then as time goes on, before the new raid is release they can update it to be same ilevel as raid, no different from the past.

[TarynH]

Did I get your main point though? like to be sure.

Pretty much. Gear choices should be closer than what they are basically. The game needs more alternative approaches to gearing up closer to BiS. Raids shouldn't be the end game. They should be an optional end game.