Dark Knight and Sigmascape Savage Preliminary Thoughts

[Claire_Pendragon]

Which turn are you talking about, and as MT or OT?

I don't know how to mention this, but your quote answers your questions ^^;

[Aana]

I don't know how to mention this, but your quote answers your questions ^^;

Mornings are not my best brain function times. Maybe I should really learn to like coffee. Stuff is terrible.

[Derio]

Honestly how can you beat WAR + PLD combo right now? Its very powerful and taking 1 out for a DRK you lose alot of group utility and DPS.

So I dont think you can convince someone of adding a DRK to your raid group unless they just want to be like world first and prove a point that it can be done with a DRK

[Awful]

I've only tanked this tier as a War and my co-tank OT is my Pld buddy we've almost got O7S beat just another night throwing ourselves at the fight and we should have it, what i've noticed so far as a War vs if I was a Drk (I used to be a Drk main switched for the holy god that is war now):

-Shake it Off has some amazing uses in this raid tier in O5S for Acid Rain as you can parry Head-On with RI and shield the whole group, various AoEs in O6S + Reprisal makes it a joke/stacking one in O6S, O7S it's great for the pulse AoEs when we rotate with Divine Veil.

-Using Intervention or just cheesing things with Holmgang because it's such a short CD making tank swaps non-existant in O5S

-O6S you never get off the boss so your burst as a War is 100% uptime and you just Fel Cleave for days as well as the tank busters hitting for potatoes with any kind of CD, the OT gets hurt more than the MTwith mechanics and the ghostly lady hitting them, Drk would probably do better with TBs as they could just Dark Mind probably not even DA it either.

-O7S the TB is physical where you can just rotate RI and Awareness, then it'll be ready for a SiO for the AoE pulse making War have so much value in this fight as well as Pld who deals well with heavy physical TBS, Drk I feel would suffer more as it lacks the defense Pld and War do.

War and Pld are just really strong atm and they compliment each other more than Drk ever can, sure you can use TBN to shield your co-tank but Pld can just make it up with Intervention and Cover people, War brings so much DPS into the equation too as I always IR with my Monk buddy who uses Brotherhood at the same time making my burst just friggen insane, anyways if anyone can think of more stuffs feel free to add anything if they're raiding as a Drk this raid tier.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Drk would probably do better with TBs as they could just Dark Mind probably not even DA it either.

In magic heavy fights, an interesting thing to mention, is that DRK actually equals a WAR in "total" dmg taken in a magic heavy fight, still beaten by a PLD.
Such as O8S.

So, going by the fflogs, im inclined to think of the tanks as this;

DRK handles tank busters the best.
PLD handles filler damage the best.
WAR is in the middle, being good at both, but not the best.

Thats over simplifying it of course, but it seems to help explain how DRKs still take as much dmg as WARs, even with constant DM and TBN usage.

DRKs just take more filler damage, due to a lack of fluff CDs to keep up.
PLDs passive block alone helps lower total dmg taken through out a fight, though not reliable for TBs w/o sheltron.

This of course makes WAR the "better then DRK" due to increased DPS, and increased healing from storms path, thrill of battle, equilibrium, and the rare occasion of being in tank stance, receiving heals. (Not reflected in total damage taken.)

[InnerBeastMode]

This seems like a good thread for this question that's been burning in my mind this tier: How much more damage is mitigated by DA Dark Mind than Vengeance? For example, let's use Last Kiss as an example. Does an Arts Mind mitigate more magic damage than Vengeance would even though they both mitigate 30%? Or would they both mitigate, let's say 10K damage, at a flat rate?

Side note: I kind of want to take in DRK (OT) for fun with my group in a couple weeks after we gear up some although currently we benefit greatly from my Intuition + Shake It Off (I also use this for Acid Rain on V5S). As you have said, there is a lot of magic damage in this tier and my DRK is getting kind of dusty in the corner XD.

Thanks!

[InnerBeastMode]

This is a really good play by play for defensive CD and grit management. After getting 5-7 on farm with WAR, I hope to take DRK and boost my skills some. Personally, I'm very hesitant about having grit on for only the first ~10 seconds of the fight only. Did you have a NIN in your comp? Was the OT also shirking you occasionally and managing hate? Thanks.

[Claire_Pendragon]

How much more damage is mitigated by DA Dark Mind than Vengeance? For example, let's use Last Kiss as an example. Does an Arts Mind mitigate more magic damage than Vengeance would even though they both mitigate 30%?!

It wouldnt be 30%, but I get what you're trying to ask.

I cant speak for all DRKs, but either going by fflogs (which shows them roughly equal to WAR in total dmg), or by many DRKs ive had in my groups, the DRK takes roughly 50% more to 100% more total dmg from a WAR or PLD.
But Im going to assume its DRKs not stacking DM and TBN when we get that result.
(Also OT shirking is pretty much a requirement if ur DPS is good, and if ur MT is DRK, theres just no way for a DRK to hold hate w/o additional power slashes, unless you have a NIN to help. WAR generates the most threat, and with a 4K+ dpsing WAR for MT, who gets shirked on CD, with DPS using diversion on CD, but even then they cant hold hate to DPS, mostly SAMs, there's just no way the lowest threat tank can do it w/o a NIN. (just like HW days)

[Mahrze]

Agreed. I posted my graphs with my findings in a discord but I’m not sure I can post them here without being banned.

It took awhile to gather the data, but when I have time I plan to collect data about tank busters and auto attack damage to get more specific answers.

I find this especially concerning since this turn is meant to be the place where dark knight’s kit outperforms everyone and it comes out tied for last place.

Last place for damage mitigated.
Last place for dps.
Last place for utility.

Did you convert this data to a spreadsheet? that might help avoid the issue.

[Awful]

Snip

I agree with this analysis quite a bit after reading what you posted I too went into logs to check damage taken and what abilities were used and you're right about Drk handling TBs better, Plds taking filler, and Wars being in the middle for sure the issue being with Drk yes it can take TBs good but has lack of CDs vs the other 2 tanks. TBN is indeed strong, probably one of the stronger CDs for tanks atm but it comes at a cost of 140 potency per DA/TBN, not to mention O6S the OT takes more damage than the MT just to use that as an example.

Drks do take more damage due to lack of fluff for sure it's why i'd rather have a Pld OT with me in O6S while I MT it as a War as they'll mitigate more with Hallowed for the winds if they want to as well as blocking magic and able to provide Divine Veil for the group. My co-tanker took 400k more damage than me in O6S for example over the whole fight, I imagine using this as a basis Drk would take more damage over the course of the whole fight.

Side note: I kind of want to take in DRK (OT) for fun with my group in a couple weeks after we gear up some although currently we benefit greatly from my Intuition + Shake It Off (I also use this for Acid Rain on V5S). As you have said, there is a lot of magic damage in this tier and my DRK is getting kind of dusty in the corner XD. Thanks!

In response to Innerbeast please let me know how your runs go i'm really interested in some feedback for Sigma Savage 5-7 in relation to mitigation and how Drk functions from your perspective and to add more understanding between the 3 tanks. I too use Shake it Off for the Acid Rains as you can RI the Head On then use it right after with no delay or setup it's quite amazing really.