[dev1206] Class Reforms: why the 15/11 limit?

[Shaedhen]

There is no need for multiple spells or multiple tiers, it might feels like you have more choice but it was never that way, there has always been only that choice of spells you'll use. It only gave you the illusion of freedom.

Easy example from XI or could be used for XIV,
Protect & Shell -> Wall
1238193819-na's -> Esuna
1231973719 Threnodies -> Threnody that reduce all magic resistance?
Fire I/II/III/IV/V/VI/VII/VIII/IX -> Fire that scales with your level, omg!

and 15/11 limit is only for level50cap, there is no doubt this will change as they increase level cap.

Or they can make a single action called "attack" that does everything for you no matter what's going on in the fight.

It's not about giving an illusion of freedom, it's about making fights more tactical and force you to work in team. See what others do, use the appropriate spell or action to gain full benefit of what others did before. What you suggest is just an extreme simplification of battle mechanics

[PrettyPrincess]

Or they can make a single action called "attack" that does everything for you no matter what's going on in the fight.

It's not about giving an illusion of freedom, it's about making fights more tactical and force you to work in team. See what others do, use the appropriate spell or action to gain full benefit of what others did before. What you suggest is just an extreme simplification of battle mechanics

not really. there really is no reason to have multiple tiers of an elemental spell really. Having spells that scale in moderate damage and spells that scale in high damage I am in favor of however. I wouldn't necessarily want a wall, because you wont always need protect and shell at the same time. no reason to have different nas if you can just have esuna. etc etc.

[Shaedhen]

not really. there really is no reason to have multiple tiers of an elemental spell really.

I see 3 obvious ones :

-Depending on your mp pool
-Depending on the enmity you want to generate
-Depending on the time you can allow yourself to be defenseless while casting

[PrettyPrincess]

I see 3 obvious ones :

-Depending on your mp pool
-Depending on the enmity you want to generate
-Depending on the time you can allow yourself to be defenseless while casting

which is why we have spells that scale from moderate and spells that scale in high damage. such as the cures.

[Lucifer]

I see 3 obvious ones :

-Depending on your mp pool
-Depending on the enmity you want to generate
-Depending on the time you can allow yourself to be defenseless while casting

They don't want to understand this.

[Jinko]

I see 3 obvious ones :

-Depending on your mp pool

Now skills mp will scale with your level so no big deal here, unless of course you have burnt all your mana then too bad.

-Depending on the enmity you want to generate

Enmity should be less of an issue with skills that scale this includes ones that generate enmity on GLA and MRD.

-Depending on the time you can allow yourself to be defenseless while casting

I assume this is solo, you shouldn't be fighting monsters much more powerful than yourself anyway. (if you are then expect to take a beating or come close to death)

Personally I always follow up my nuking with a sleep spell when soloing, does the trick.

[Shaedhen]

Now skills mp will scale with your level so no big deal here, unless of course you have burnt all your mana then too bad.

No, it's about not waisting mp by using an overpowered spell when it's not needed.

Enmity should be less of an issue with skills that scale this includes ones that generate enmity on GLA and MRD.

It's not about giving gla or mrd better abilities to generate enmity, it's about you not spamming blindly spells, destroying your keyboard/joystick in the process because you will never ever get the hate on you no matter what you do.

I assume this is solo, you shouldn't be fighting monsters much more powerful than yourself anyway. (if you are then expect to take a beating or come close to death)

No, not on solo. Ifrit for example : depending on the situation you could be able to use a tier I spell before his next ws but not a tier II because it would take too much time and you might get the aoe.

[Jinko]

No, it's about not waisting mp by using an overpowered spell when it's not needed.

Are you talking damage or healing here you need to be more specific.

As a Damage dealer there is no waste to mana if you are doing the damage, so I assume you mean healing, yes overhealing is an issue I guess, but then healer will have to learn when they should use their spells and which ones they should use at the correct times.

It's not about giving gla or mrd better abilities to generate enmity, it's about you not spamming blindly spells, destroying your keyboard/joystick in the process because you will never ever get the hate on you no matter what you do.

Why not ? what standard is there to suggest this shouldn't be the case, and lets not point to FF11.

No, not on solo. Ifrit for example : depending on the situation you could be able to use a tier I spell before his next ws but not a tier II because it would take too much time and you might get the aoe.

It seems sensible to me that as you increase in power your spells become more potent anyway, just because something is more powerful doesn't mean it should takes longer to perform.

As a MRD or LNC levels do they take longer to swing their weapon as their auto attack becomes more powerful ?

Skewer 1 and 2 use the same amount of TP and are executed at the same speed but do different damage.

[Shaedhen]

Are you talking damage or healing here you need to be more specific.

As a Damage dealer there is no waste to mana if you are doing the damage, so I assume you mean healing, yes overhealing is an issue I guess, but then healer will have to learn when they should use their spells and which ones they should use at the correct times.

Yes, I said this mainly for healers but it can also apply to nukers. For example depending on what your fighting you might simply not need to use a highly powerful spell because a less powerful one, combined with everyone's else actions will be enough to kill the mob.

Why not ? what standard is there to suggest this shouldn't be the case, and lets not point to FF11.

Well i don't know... It just seems simple logic to me. Let's just get rid of the whole enmity system then.

It seems sensible to me that as you increase in power your spells become more potent anyway, just because something is more powerful doesn't mean it should takes longer to perform.

As a MRD or LNC levels do they take longer to swing their weapon as their auto attack becomes more powerful ?

Skewer 1 and 2 use the same amount of TP and are executed at the same speed but do different damage.

Well yes ok that's how it works right now but i can't say i do agree with it. I think that at some point you should have acces to something of an higher grade, and this should come with a little downside. But you should also still have access to something less powerful if you want to. And again, to me it just part of the whole "let's give players less choices, make everything easier and not too complex. They will have only one action available for what they want to do, or maybe two because we got to be kind sometimes, so they won't have to ask themselves what is better given a specific situation and just stick with the same spells fulltime".

[grandm]

No, it's about not waisting mp by using an overpowered spell when it's not needed.


It's not about giving gla or mrd better abilities to generate enmity, it's about you not spamming blindly spells, destroying your keyboard/joystick in the process because you will never ever get the hate on you no matter what you do.

No, not on solo. Ifrit for example : depending on the situation you could be able to use a tier I spell before his next ws but not a tier II because it would take too much time and you might get the aoe.

on the one hand you complain tiers help control MP usage, but in the same post you pretty much say your going to spam spells now that hate is not an issue. contradiction? know how to look after you MP?