Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[Nedkel]

And yet a parser is necessary to play your job at it's maximum potential.

It becomes a necessity to know the other's DPS when you're doing high level content. Imagine the following situation : you set up a static and progress on the last available raid. Thing is your group reaches enrage every time without clearing it. No mistakes are made, no death. In this case it's DPS problem : one member is probably lower than he should be. How do you know which person needs to put more work on his gameplay without a parser ?

Also, your statement about stats, thing is we have to use a parser to understand the substats effects. It is not possible without it.

Back in my days of silkroad and cabal online the hardest content was reserved for the best groups and guilds, not randoms.

There are good and bad sides of the parser, of which one is impacting the gameplay and community and the other helps your to do as best as it is possible.
I could understand people playing this game for so many years, that all they have left to do in this game is to maximize the performance of each class, but the people who does that really need to ask themself a question, wouldnt it be better if they will play other games instead and get involved into them as much as they do in FF XIV and coming back after new patches? Because any game has just finite amount of playtime it could offer and mmorpg's are not different.
Instead of trying hard and losing nerves, try to play something else, so eventually game developer will make certain activity easier in order to make people playing it and winning it.

Sigh

How do I put this?

If we were to gather a hub of a players, set about 10. 2 of them are regularly bad apples but 8 of them are good people.

According to your statement, which you have cited as an absolute time and time again, the use of a parser would have one of those 8 good people turn bad without fail.

This is how we understand your use of "more harassment" and also why it doesn't make sense to us. Since those two bad people are already bad to begin with, you can't have any "more harassment" than those two already produce. So that only leaves the argument that only way it harassment can increase in a quantifiable way is that one of the 8 good people go bad.

Do you now see why people like me and Kaldea and many others can't grasp that? Because you've stated that this exact situation will absolutely happen. It's already crazy to think that people's good behaviour in this game's current policy will absolutely change for the worst if SE decided to give the green light to full blown parse tommorow.

TL;DR: you can't quantifiably have more harassment out of a set of people who are already parsing if it already exist. Stating that it absolutely will increase implies people's current behaviour when parsing is tied directly to the tool.

Just install world of warcraft and see how it looks like there.
Its not a pleasant expierence, hence why there is no fresh blood coming to the game, like at all.
It doesnt help judging dps is bannable offence, it is also in WoW to harass others by their dps.
He doesnt need to proof anything, the proof is sitting right there ready for someone who played only FFXIV to find out.

This post on reddit says it all
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...arser/ddyuuck/

There is a literal elephant in the room everyone pro parsing just trying to hide behind the couch, lol.
And that doesnt help, when the dying body is lying on that couch (WoW).
The discussion is about the official in game parser, not about taking them away from the community, this will for sure affect the average player gameplay forcing him to pay more attention to the numbers than the game itself, it will lead him to judge other players performance comparing to his own.
The official one will not help, but just make this game a toxic swamp as the world of warcraft is today.

[Deithwen]

Back in my days of silkroad and cabal online the hardest content was reserved for the best groups and guilds, not randoms.

There are good and bad sides of the parser, of which one is impacting the gameplay and community and the other helps your to do as best as it is possible.
I could understand people playing this game for so many years, that all they have left to do in this game is to maximize the performance of each class, but the people who does that really need to ask themself a question, wouldnt it be better if they will play other games instead and get involved into them as much as they do in FF XIV and coming back after new patches? Because any game has just finite amount of playtime it could offer and mmorpg's are not different.
Instead of trying hard and losing nerves, try to play something else, so eventually game developer will make certain activity easier in order to make people playing it and winning it.

So in your point of view, if someone wants to play his job perfectly, it has to be because he is a long time player who has nothing else to ? And he is a try hard losing nerves?

Does it really sound that weird that someone wants to max out his gameplay without being treated as a try hard who should go play another game ?

[Nedkel]

So in your point of view, if someone wants to play his job perfectly, it has to be because he is a long time player who has nothing else to ? And he is a try hard losing nerves?

Does it really sound that weird that someone wants to max out his gameplay without being treated as a try hard who should go play another game ?

If they start to demand from the other players to do as good as possible and not themselves, then yes they could use a break from the game because it will not get better at this point, and it will frustrate the longer they play the game, turning it into something thats the game is not supposed to be like.
Its just a stupid game afterall and you could see guys freaking out on someone who doesnt use aoe's as frequently as he "supposed" to do. Its easy to drop a lot of dps simply by not using aoe, for whatever reason someone had in RL. I found myself not being able to do a proper pulls when someone is talking to me.

[Tridus]

And that doesnt help, when the dying body is lying on that couch (WoW).

Don't kid yourself. SE would trade subscriber counts with WoW in a heartbeat. The two aren't close. WoW is doing it's usual end of expansion cycle decline, and it'll bounce back as soon as the next one comes out, as it always does (and XIV does the same).

Parsers were in WoW in vanilla, when it did it's rise to become the biggest MMO ever. It's not getting new blood now because at this point everyone who wants to play it already has at some point. It's 13 years old, after all. It's still the biggest MMO by far.

People who think WoW is dying because of parsers are so misinformed that it's comical.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The whole post was the answer to your question, not just the first sentence. I know my English is bad, but if you read past that one sentence you would know my answer. Sorry about my English but if you are not going to bother to read the whole post please do not bother to quote me. I know my English is not the best and may be hard to understand so I will paste it here again maybe it was lost in the shuffle.

SNIP other stuff

I read your entire post and we've covered that your English is just as good as any natives.

The point I was trying to demonstrate was that guides and information would not exist without tools like parsers. What would exist is "feelings" and "ideas" with exceptionally poor methods of validity. I've seen this before in other MMO's. In fact, a recent one was B&S. Then a third party tool was developed and changed everything. Then an official one came out and then it started only in hard content before trickling downward. Console players being at a disadvantage here isn't fun. I WOULD hate to be a console player in this game and have to rely on others for data.

To your credit, yes as an incredibly seasoned veteran of MMO's I can take a new class read the tooltips and figure out on my own a decent priority/rotation. It won't be 95%+, but I can guarantee it'd be serviceable even for entry level savage. That said, that doesn't mean it's good though and I am very far from what I would consider an average player.

My position has been stated multiple times in these threads, but I will gladly reiterate for you in case you haven't seen it.

I want an unmitigated open information official parser. I want people to see their numbers and be accountable for them in all forms of content. I want people who harass people over their performance to be punished strictly.

You are putting words in Kaldea's mouth. Nowhere in her post did she claim abuse wouldn't happen far as I can tell. She only mentioned wanting to play with people of a comparable skill level. Depending on the content, I share that sentiment. When farming Shinryu, I'm not one to stick around long if I notice I'm woefully out-dpsing the party. Why? I can find another group and kill it faster. Considering I'll need at least 99 attempts unless I get lucky (I did, thank god), I prefer fast and efficient. My stance changes in say, a learning party, where I'll be infinitely more patient.

99.9% of the time I would rather join a learning party than clear/farm. I find that learning parties have VERY clear expectations and are always open to discussion and improvement. Clear/farms almost always end up as some kind of trap where people snuck in who have no business being there thus causing tension.

Shorten the skill gap. Judging by SE's failed attempts at it, I'd say the problem isn't the game.

To be fair, the game could do an infinitely better job really explaining and testing players on their new abilities/job roles.

I'm actually honestly surprised Yoshi hasn't knee-jerked the skill gap by flat out increasing the potency on combo actions to be ~90% of your DPS. Nerf all oGCDs to only account for roughly 10% of your total output thus putting a floor of somewhere around 60-70% (because there are legitimately players who think the 2.5s GCD is so you can "think" about your next move and only push a button every 5-6s).

I could understand people playing this game for so many years, that all they have left to do in this game is to maximize the performance of each class, but the people who does that really need to ask themself a question, wouldnt it be better if they will play other games instead and get involved into them as much as they do in FF XIV and coming back after new patches?

So your solution is to reduce the active number of players who play the game, thus reducing incoming funding to create more content for you? You realize how counter productive this is right?

Instead of trying hard and losing nerves, try to play something else, so eventually game developer will make certain activity easier in order to make people playing it and winning it.

Damn it. I fell for it again. 10/10 solid troll. No self-respecting gamer would ever say this with a straight face. EVER.

Just install world of warcraft and see how it looks like there.
Its not a pleasant expierence, hence why there is no fresh blood coming to the game, like at all.

Funny,

I have it installed and it's a very pleasant experience. We just recruited tons of new players, approx. 35% of them are completely brand new to WoW. Guess there's no fresh blood coming in.

In Pugs, or random groups, they should not be allowed. People play content for different reason then you. I see no valid reason why you should have the right to point a finger a judge someones DPS. Now I think in a 100% guild group with no PUGS. Then a parser is fine. You get what you signed up for. Any group where you group with a stranger it should not be allowed.

This is such an asinine stance to take.

We all drive on the same highway, but maybe I want to drive in reverse like an idiot. I drive for a different reason than you so nope can't hold me accountable.

Hey Aniond - so glad we're on this team project together. I can't wait to work on it with you. *Sits in corner playing candy crush on phone*. Can't hold me accountable man.

Aniond my friend. Thanks for inviting me to play in your basketball game. *Takes the ball and runs into the bleachers and hides it.* What why are you mad? I'm just playing the game my way. Definitely can't hold me accountable there.

Hey Boss, I decided to take off today despite that presentation to corporate being due to today. I don't work for the same reason you do so back off. Yep, definitely not accountable there either.

Why be so hypocritical about it?

Don't kid yourself. SE would trade subscriber counts with WoW in a heartbeat. The two aren't close. WoW is doing it's usual end of expansion cycle decline, and it'll bounce back as soon as the next one comes out, as it always does (and XIV does the same).

Parsers were in WoW in vanilla, when it did it's rise to become the biggest MMO ever. It's not getting new blood now because at this point everyone who wants to play it already has at some point. It's 13 years old, after all. It's still the biggest MMO by far.

People who think WoW is dying because of parsers are so misinformed that it's comical.

Correct. Not to mention if you look at the playerbase from 2004 and compare it to now, it's definitely significantly better. Even the devs have admitted this. They have a hard time designing content hard enough because people have more information than ever and perform better as a result.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

What I was trying to say is that the guides will still exist since no one is asking for the removal of such tools. Being as the unofficial tools do not seem to be going anywhere, while not directly from SE they do allow an option for those that truly want access to such information. Now as many have said sure having official set of tools would be nice, but Yoshi-P has clearly showed his disdain for such tools, and will use whatever information or data to support his position. Just personally do not see the point in beating a dead horse, since we would have to change his position on such tools, either through action or wallet.

I do not see Yoshi-P changing his mind anytime soon unless 99.9% of the population beg him for official meters, and even then unless lack of said meter action does not result in an exodus, I do not see it happening. Overall from what I can tell the community has asked for easier things to be changed, such as being able to mail between characters or turning chat function back on in the feast. Still nothing. They will live and die by their words and stance when it comes to official meters.

I do understand that you want "unmitigated open information official parser" it would be a lovely tool to have, and for many in the community yes we do agree that the the pros far outweigh the cons. I just do not think Yoshi-P feels the same way, in his eyes the cons outweigh the pros. The GM staff does take such issues seriously. I was reported in the past for jokingly poking fun at a friends numbers when we did a titan for their relic weapon, and someone in the group did not know we were friends I guess and I was reported. They were quick. Though I just get this feeling Yoshi-P expects a negative response and as such will do whatever he feels is necessary to limit that response even if it inconveniences the player base. In short it seems as if he would rather do everything to prevent the negative action, instead of reacting to them as they come.

That is why I mentioned before instead of asking for them we as a community should try and figure out a way we can change his position and remove the stigma he firmly holds regarding the tools. Which will be hard since for everyone positive someone will come forth with a negative, and when it comes to a person in power it only takes one case to support their claims and an infinite amount to refute them.