Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Claviusnex]

Fact is that SMN could be atm considered best ress since they don't lose as much when they long raise

Off the top of my head it's about 27% of MP for Resurrection plus a 7.5 second cast time. For a boss like Hashmal where you need to keep moving that is too long to be standing still. Yes there is Swiftcast but as it is needed for Wyrmwave it won't get used unless you are over a minute away from triggering Bahamut. So while the ability to rez is nice to have it is a last hope type of thing where the DPS loss or risk of your own death is offset by getting your healer/s back to avoid a wipe.

Then Summoner shouldn't have it without using Pheonix or another similar supportive Egi/demi-summon, because Summoner historically has never had Raise as a baseline spell. That's how it's supposed to be.

That's not an unreasonable requirement. I've often felt that SE doesn't quite know what they want the Summoner to be. If it is to be the traditional FF Summoner then an Egi would fit with tradition and lore.

[Remedi]

it's that MP cost but SMN has a dps neutral rotation and more ways to regain it's MP without considering refresh as such it is impactful to their resources and I stated why it's a less dps loss hardcasting it over RDM since most of their dmg happens from passive sources.

If you ppl prefer, RDM is the fastest of the 2 while SMN is the one that is more reliable, I could also say that the strongest depends on the situation and the average skil level of the player

Also wouldn't really say that Hasmal is that heavy on the movement side but w/e

edit: Out of curiosity what would be the use of swift with bahamut? It's for the small gain of using R3 over R2? I don't play the role enough to know but the guide I read made no mention of it post 4.1

[Ceallach]

Then Summoner shouldn't have it without using Pheonix or another similar supportive Egi/demi-summon, because Summoner historically has never had Raise as a baseline spell. That's how it's supposed to be.

Red Mage shouldn't have versions of Flare or Holy because Red Mage has historically not had access to the strongest spells of Black and White magic and their melee attacks should be based on strength, because -that's how it's supposed to be-

There's a lot of !@#% in FF14 that in precedence doesn't usually happen in this game.

Actually, red mage has been capable of instant death before (Scourge, FINAL FANTASY; Raze, FINAL FANTASY II; Death, FINAL FANTASY XII: The Zodiac Age). That's typically black magic and is often a higher level than Flare.

[Kabooa]

Actually, red mage has been capable of instant death before (Scourge, FINAL FANTASY; Raze, FINAL FANTASY II; Death, FINAL FANTASY XII: The Zodiac Age). That's typically black magic and is often a higher level than Flare.

Variable leveled lists aside: Death is a mid tier spell in pretty much every game as anything important is immune to it, there being exceptions to the rule but not enough to be of notable consequence outside meme videos.

I'm not going to go through every single leveled list and count up which ones Flare comes further on in, only that it comes later in at least as many examples as listed, including the original Final Fantasy, Tactics, 4, and 6.

Edit: Doing just a scant bit of research shows that Scourge is a poison spell, while Death and Flare are both of the upper echelon and exclusive to Black Mage.

Final Fantasy 2 isn't using a strict class system at a glance and is hard to gauge.

In the context of FF12, Death isn't considered a 'Black Magic' spell as the Black Mage has no access to it. The only metric we have here is the LP cost, to which the Black Magick with "Flare" is 120 and the Arcane Magick with "Death" is 50: Indicating a lower tier.

[Remedi]

Tbh what is a black magic sometimes is confusing, the only constant has been elemental magics, but then you get titles like tactics advance games where flare, death and meteor are alchemy magic for some reasons

[LeeraSorlan]

SMN and RDM raise is fine

BLM getting raise is stupid.


Neither of the two situations will happen, give it up

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

If your relying on a DPS to raise your party members...your doing it wrong.
The issue is not where you think it is. DPS'ers shouldn't be healing in the first place....if they happen to have the skill...its for emergencies/mistakes/screwup's.
IMHO.
Is it wrong that a redmage can raise/cure? No...its handy when things go wrong. Note what i just said......

[blackplaguee]

Chainspell Raise (FFXI)!Redmage could heal xp parties with the proper set up. Fast forward to FFXIV. Why are you surprised redmage is doing something outside the box. Redmage always been a sword wielding beast with a foot in melee/white magic /Black magic. Stop crying! We all wanted the rdm from the glory days of FFXI. Red is going to be able to do shit other classes can't. Get over it. Stop trying to nerf a class you don't main and rally to buff yours. Give ideas to help your class. Life's not always fair why should your game be. Play what you like screw meta. Make your own party's and raids that include you. Stop being the kid waiting to get picked and start your own groups. Play your class to the max and learn the mechanics and any class will work. There is always a class that can cheese some mechanic to make a fight easier and the flavor of the month. Make your our strategies for the make up you have. All classes are viable.

[Cynfael]

Snip.

The tough love lecture is all well and good, but RDM itself is problematic in that its only niche (rez support for progression) becomes less useful the more practiced the party becomes. Rezzing is an unfortunate thing for any DPS to be distinguished by.

[hynaku]

Why should black mage get raise. It doesn't come from class that had raise in first place. Summoner has it because its also a scholar and class they both come from had it. Red mage is hybrid class that combines healer and caster class together. Black mage doesn't come from any type of healer class. If they take raise away. Then they need to take away endless mp a black mage gets.