Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Miste]

BLM was always taken over smn until creator. All the other fights, savage coil, the coils on their own, gordias AND midas had a BLM in their party and yes, I'm talking about world 1st, 2nd and so on...

The world first thing is untrue I mean the world first videos are on youtube did you not search them before posting this?...no BLM in T6, T7, and T9 (in fact they took two SMN's for T6 and T7 <.<) for second coil so you should check first before saying something like that :x

SMN was widely taken over BLM for Second Coil in my experience when I played during that time. I actually played SMN as my off job instead of BLM during Second Coil since it was more accepted in my experience especially because of T7 Renaud kiting. In my opinion and experience the only turn BLM probably would be a better choice over SMN was T8 since the boss was a stationary striking dummy.

Seems first coil world first videos had SMN and BLM in them cept for T5 which took BLM only. First Coil T4 world first video actually used double SMN too due to the large amount of adds and dots went through the knight shields. That happened in my group for it too actually our BLM went SMN and we double SMN T4 due to the large amount of adds in it and also the dots going through the magic shield. So in my experience SMN was intermixed with BLM during first coil and your world first example has BLM and SMN in most of them so equal.

Final Coil world firsts on youtube did only take BLM though, but that's only 1 out of 3 tiers so not bad at all.

I mean in my experience playing through all of this and completing the raids as a healer and a caster sometimes BLM wasn't always taken over SMN until creator like you are claiming here so it is better you don't talk in absolutes as if your opinion is a fact :/

BLM was at 70% of the casters base UNTIL END OF MIDAS.

Where are you getting this statistic from?


In the end though I don't think BLM needs raise. To me it doesn't seem like that is the problem with the job. I personally switched to off job RDM instead of BLM because BLM mobility makes me cry and the fights require a lot of movement again so to me I just don't feel like the hassle is worth it. I've seen some very good BLMs though in this tier savage, but I think SMN after they buffed its play style kind of just overtook due to how much damage they do.

Raise wouldn't fix anything really since groups don't rely on raise....a DPS job best feature is their DPS and raid DPS contribution. During progression Raise helps yes, but the healers would always be better off managing raises than making a DPS job interrupt their DPS rotation to raise.

[Kurando]

Raise wouldn't fix anything really since groups don't rely on raise....a DPS job best feature is their DPS and raid DPS contribution. During progression Raise helps yes, but the healers would always be better off managing raises than making a DPS job interrupt their DPS rotation to raise

I like this. Exactly my point.

[Cynfael]

So what? Where is BLM unplayable?

I’ve never suggested that BLM was anywhere in the vicinity of unplayable; I was specifically refuting your assertion that lore took priority over gameplay concerns. If players aren’t having fun with the mechanics of the game, lore takes a backseat.

To reiterate, I understand why certain posters (hi, Llugen) are advocating for a raise. I agree that BLM needs improvement to be more competitive, but I’d rather curtail the trend of magic DPS raising corpses than further promote it.

[Ceallach]

Why is this thread still going? Black mages should never Raise, period. That is for both lore and gameplay reasons. What they really need is more DPS, and that's going to be addressed in 4.2.

[Caduagm]

The world first thing is untrue I mean the world first videos are on youtube did you not search them before posting this?...no BLM in T6, T7, and T9 (in fact they took two SMN's for T6 and T7 <.<) for second coil so you should check first before saying something like that :x

Yeah I'm sorry. I confess i i only saw Final Coil onwards.

I mean in my experience playing through all of this and completing the raids as a healer and a caster sometimes BLM wasn't always taken over SMN until creator like you are claiming here so it is better you don't talk in absolutes as if your opinion is a fact :/

BLM was taken over SMN in Heavensward, tho. A2s-A8s WF had a BLM on their team, so did A10S. so thats 2/3 of a expansion.

Where are you getting this statistic from?

Saw it on reddit a while ago, and if you see on fflogs you can see that BLM is around 55~60% ish of the caster base until creator, but not everyone uses fflogs.

but the healers would always be better off managing raises than making a DPS job interrupt their DPS rotation to raise.

That's not true in SMN's case tho (if swiftcasted and not leting the dots fall off), since the filler spell is weaker than healer's. (unless the fight is hard healing and/or you can't have a great uptime as healer).
And as i said before. BLM made it through 4 years. They still can make it now, even without a raise.

[dinnertime]

BLM will never get one anyway.
Like I and others have said before, giving BLM a Raise won't fix it and homogenizing isn't the solution to balance jobs.

Personally, I think BLM needs more damage and offensive utility incorporated into its spells/traits so it would be more viable while still in line with its style and lore.

[Shiroe]

really think a blm will wast a swifcast on a rez, when blm are in dire need of swifcast for mobility?... and think they'll use rez during fire astral, instead of ice astral?.. blm will wait till they're back in ice..might as well let a healer hardcast a rez till than...

pls stop trying to give blm rez.., leace it with rdm and smn

[Remedi]

Those are the reasons I say that giving a raise to the caster role won't be as broken as ppl think, sure BLM has infinite resources (as in it can do their rotation endlessly, otherwise MP pool is all taken by rotation)but as you said it needs very specific moments to really hand out raises like candies and sacrificing tools for himself.

Though yes I would argue that we don't need a spread in raises and it won't be a real fix to more pressing issues

[Miste]

BLM was taken over SMN in Heavensward, tho. A2s-A8s WF had a BLM on their team, so did A10S. so thats 2/3 of a expansion.

I didn't really look t HW stuff...my memory from it isn't as good since I was busy with college a lot during it. Simply I just knew your all encompassing statement was a bit wrong; especially due to 2.0 raids.

I saw SMNs in groups and in statics I was in and BLMs too. I mean world first is great but it doesn't mean that the rest of the players never took SMN just because the world first group had a BLM. My static for Gordias had a SMN and so did my Midas static (at the beginning anyway, group changed over time due to people having to leave for RL reasons).

Saw it on reddit a while ago, and if you see on fflogs you can see that BLM is around 55~60% ish of the caster base until creator, but not everyone uses fflogs.

Well...reddit or fflogs is simply not a reliable source for statistics. Reddit well...anyone can post there so I could go there and say 99% of the casters are RDM now; doesn't make it true. FFlogs well you pointed it out yourself...not everyone uses fflogs so it is unreliable for that kind of statistic as well.

That's not true in SMN's case tho (if swiftcasted and not leting the dots fall off), since the filler spell is weaker than healer's. (unless the fight is hard healing and/or you can't have a great uptime as healer).

It can be true? It depends on where a SMN is in their rotation when someone dies. In general no matter what if a SMN has to raise they are sacrificing DPS to do it. It can be more or less depending on where they are in their rotation so it is possible that a SMN raising loses more DPS than a healer doing the Raise instead.

During progression healers will be less focused on DPS as well...since they want to avoid needless deaths and are still getting a feel for the fight. They'll still be trying their best to contribute DPS, but until the group reaches enrage they will be more cautious to make sure everyone stays alive as much as possible to practice the mechanics and learn the fight.

[Neela]

Well...reddit or fflogs is simply not a reliable source for statistics. Reddit well...anyone can post there so I could go there and say 99% of the casters are RDM now; doesn't make it true. FFlogs well you pointed it out yourself...not everyone uses fflogs so it is unreliable for that kind of statistic as well.

haven't thought that I would ever read a statement or opinion like this - after fflogs data and statistics are the one and only core of every argument in this community... although most of the playerbase who use fflogs honestly know that most of the top ranking-numbers are pushed exactly for this reason by the whole grp and are not like people say just "normal run data" everybody else have to archive... always wonder why people praise fflogs like a messiah tho... saying don't rely on fflogs data because those numbers are the product of reason "xy" does not only count for the caster statistic but for everything else people think they could underline with fflogs numbers.

same goes for meta-grps based on world first clears like you said - just because 1st haven't a specific cls in their clear grp doesn't mean all other cls should be locked out for specific content – maybe different comps might be even better... but well this game is driven by guides and walkthroughs what's sad somehow but maybe thats just me... : /

there will always be cls which are more handy for certain runs than other ones - but locking out a cls in pf is a problem caused by the playerbase not the devs - at least as long there isn't some kind of content which is completely unplayable on certain cls. Saying that, we haven't seen that scenario yet.