Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Llugen]

It is stupid that they decided to get rid of damage buff for the class, I agree, but it made sense in the greater role pool to get rid of Raging Strikes specifically, since RDM now has embolden for itself and the party. This should have translated into ok BLM needs its own damage up ability, but instead they pretended like it was balanced and gave it nothing.

Regardless of all this, this is the Raise discussion thread, and I would STILL stand by BLM getting a Raise (off-GCD 180s recast ability) that is suited to its lore for the sake of role balance. Not having any access to Raise is just another reason why groups, especially PUG groups, would shy away from taking BLM over SMN/RDM particularly in progression, and that's exactly what we want to avoid. Sorry to be a broken record yet again but the class does not need to be a rez dispenser it just needs access to the ability as an option.

[Alexalibur]

I see your point Llugen but at this point, I think that this game has too many classes that can rez right now, especially with RDM capable of tossing rezzes as much as their MP can take, and with healers having the easiest time to manage MP in the game's history, and it's gonna only get worse as gear provides more piety.
SMN losing the hefty MP draining rotation thanks to Ruin III only made it easier for them to rez, and Shadow Flare being instant cast made Swiftcast used less unless you're trying to heavily optimise.

[Llugen]

I think what you mean to say is that the game has exactly the wrong number of classes that have raise right now, which is the point of this OP.



Either the caster role should all have access to it, or none of the casters should. This is the entire problem. So to spell it out, the number should either be six (all disciples of magic) or it should be three (all healers only), whereas right now the number is five.

[Remedi]

Franjkly I honestly doubt that SE really valued raising correctly and that's why we are at this point, they gave it RDM because class fantasy and SMN has access to it because healers has to have it.
If I recall correctly they dissed the point of chain ress and vercure that ppl made by saying that while true the dps loss would be severe and whilw this is somewhat true they seems to me that they did not consider the effect of it eon prog enough.
At this rate they might just follow blizzard's actions and limit it in some way or they might do the right thing and just make raise a role skill for both healers and casters (same reasoning why esuna, protect and rampart have become role skills)

[Raim]

Raise is important for RDM from a lore perspective, less so for a SMN. That being said the answer is to improve on what BLM offers to groups rather than take away from what the others offer. Some kind of unique ability provided by them such as their ward skill applying to others in the group, or sheer higher damage numbers to balance their lack of support and mobility.

[Kurando]

Not having any access to Raise is just another reason why groups, especially PUG groups, would shy away from taking BLM over SMN/RDM particularly in progression, and that's exactly what we want to avoid. Sorry to be a broken record yet again but the class does not need to be a rez dispenser it just needs access to the ability as an option.

This is not true. The main reason that groups request SMN is that since their buff the damage they bring and the utility they offer makes them highly desirable. You could take Ressurection away from SMN and they would still be picked because of everything else they can do. As for RDM having Cure/Rez is part of their utility, removing them would only leave the mediocre Embolden, which really only benefits melee allies, limiting party compositions to a degree.

BLM is currently bringing meh damage and practically no party utility. No amount of giving them a Rez spell will suddenly make them a must pick for groups because they are still being out matched in everything else. Look at SAM, it doesn't bring much to a party but the damage it can dish out makes it stand out from the other melee DPS.

[Llugen]

The fact that they have Raise means that taking a SMN even in prog is more acceptable than taking a BLM, though, and that is significant. If they didn't have it, it would make the most sense to take RDM even despite SMN's increased damage. It has the option to raise even if it doesn't need to do so.

The same, obviously, cannot be said about BLM. This is a dilemma. In a MMO, lore must give way to balance, so rather than complain that BLM has no business having raise because it's "white magic", let's figure out how to make a raise skill look/function like black magic.


To conclude, there is a multitude of reasons not to take BLM, and access to raise is one of them, regardless of how much damage it does. Highest of all of course is that the class is pretty trash to progress on, or at the very least, it makes MUCH more sense to progress on RDM and now also SMN. This leaves BLM mains like myself feeling shitty about playing our main job in groups, and quite frankly, I am sick of my class being so far out of favor on this front. The solution should not be "play a different job", that's just crappy. The solution is also not "make parties deal with it", as that means that the job will just be shunned as we are seeing right now. No. The solution is to balance the role, period. Having raise and not needing it is tacitly better than needing raise and not having it, no one can disagree with this. Even if you or anyone specifically plays the job and doesn't need raise, that doesn't mean that the job couldn't use it at all. I just want to play my main class and not feel guilty about it, man.


Edit: This is to say nothing of the damage imbalance on RDM right now, Embolden needs better usability, certainly, but this thread is about BLM and Raise, not RDM damage.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

The thread was about all three casters at one point, until page 14. Still in the "Raise is the problem, not the solution" crowd though. Seeing as throwing bodies at bosses is a viable tactic Raise needs to get addressed at some point, not removed entirely just longer effective cooldowns for the 2 DPS raises. And again as many many people have pointed out, poked holes in or put succintly, just having the option will do nothing for BLM besides making the other two casters look better by comparison.

[Akor]

Why not just reduce the mana transfer CD to a minute or lower on BLM?

[Alexalibur]

Mana shift already sucks on BLM as we hardly have any good time to transfer mana without clipping GCDs.