How can tanking and healing be made more broadly useful in more "role-specific" ways?

[FallenWings]

As far as Tank and Healer synergy goes, the better one is at their role, the less the other will need to be.

If you have a tank that mitigates like a god, then you make your healers bored and have less to do with their primary role except... add additional DPS.

If you have a healer that heals like a god(like they currently do now in contrast to most other MMOs), then you make your tanks bored and have less to do with their primary role except... add additional DPS.

Not to mention you also make them more one dimensional and less appealing to the majority of players. i.e For whatever reason; rocks, water, and air hurtling at you at 1000mph heal you(as amusing as that would be) and giant axes and swords bounce off any physical matter, merely somehow agitating the monster more than being shot/stabbed/blown up would. Muh fantasy.

The fact of the matter is that Tanking and Healing are absolutely artificial parameters that ultimately, just prevent loss and thus can be seen as generally unappealing to most. I've said this since day one and that as long as the goal of every fight is to "Defeat X Boss", the true parameter that allows victory is Damage. There is absolutely no reason to do better at Tanking or Healer other than to fulfill a strange one dimensional fantasy because it does nothing for the progress of the fight towards victory. Not to mention considering SE's views and track record, they want to make a game where the required parameters like tanking and healing are easy enough that a monkey could play it.

Buuut... If we're talking about making the primary roles more intriguing WITHOUT taking away their meaningful contribution then you can for example remove all passive cooldowns from tanks and make their tanking primarily oGCD or GCD with a counter effect that does more than their average GCD. I.E For 3 seconds reduce the next attack by 20%, 10 second cooldown(oGCD) or Gain a X HP shield. If shield breaks, deal 600 potency(GCD). Something like that where actively tanking also contributes to fighting.

Healers can be turning overheal to damage or some fishpaste like that idk I don't play healers.

[Reynhart]

In 3 mins. So you would say using rampart and sentinel is overkill together om v1s? And what do you use your cooldowns on and when?

Overkill is abit strong, but I'm sure I got distracted for some of my runs and probably didn't use Shadow Wall, without any problem.

If I'm a bit more focused, I use Shadow Wall either when someone is dead, so that healers don't have to focus on me, or for the 10 seconds before the first Charybdis, to make sure I don't die because they purposefuly don't heal me.

Apart from that, I use Reprisal on shares, Dark Mind and Rampart (When availlable) on almost all Twin Lightnings except LD on the second Twin, Convalescence after Charybdis...nothing ground breaking, I guess.

[Jeibird]

limit bar gain should, in the future, be planned better by the dev team and tank lb3 should be adjusted so that one single tank lb3 can cover the whole raid not just one alliance. a failed dps check should not wipe the entire raid just because one single alliance was a little too slow. it really is sad that in all of the content we have only one fight requires tank lb and even then it's a gimmick.

the tank, as a support based class inherently, should have a chance to shine by offering a second chance for a mistake at the cost of a longer fight that can still fail if people don't shape up.

basically the tank should be able to pre empt disaster better in the same way a healer can recover from it. foresight vs hindsight

[akaneakki]

Apart from that, I use Reprisal on shares, Dark Mind and Rampart (When availlable) on almost all Twin Lightnings except LD on the second Twin, Convalescence after Charybdis...nothing ground breaking, I guess.

So first twinbolt how do you do that one? The only reason I'm asking is because I wanted to know if you actually did an optimal rotation of cd's there. Like how many tanks doesn't understand popping rampart about 5 seconds into fight, will mitigate 2-3 tailslaps plus the twinbolt, since the cd is that long. And the second reason why I ask, is because in some post you done here, you talk about being in a tank stance 95% of the time is a good thing and doing so, you are pretty much overkilling mitigation from auto attacs when it's not really needed.

[Shurrikhan]

So first twinbolt how do you do that one? The only reason I'm asking is because I wanted to know if you actually did an optimal rotation of cd's there. Like how many tanks doesn't understand popping rampart about 5 seconds into fight, will mitigate 2-3 tailslaps plus the twinbolt, since the cd is that long. And the second reason why I ask, is because in some post you done here, you talk about being in a tank stance 95% of the time is a good thing and doing so, you are pretty much overkilling mitigation from auto attacs when it's not really needed.

The very first entry in a google search for a v1.0 Savage Tanking Guide should have all the information you need. Let's try to keep the thread on topic, please.

[Ayer2015]

Well.... they could:
- strip all raid wide utility buffs from dps jobs and allocated that utility to healers.
- they could also reduce the number of redundant skills and make them more impactful
- remove shields from healers and leave damage mitigation skills to tanks only
- enmity should be more difficult to manage
- more group wide damage on trash pulls
- more meaningful debuffs

[Sebazy]

After dying half a dozen times in the 24 player raid due to healers doing dps over healing the MT (me) I would like to propose a health based dps buff / debuff for healer dps.

This would absolutely kill 24 mans for me. I've got 97-99% logs in Rabanastre and I can confidently say I've never let a tank die that didn't get themselves killed via failing one of the few mechanics that can actually kill a tank there. However, it's pretty much standard faire for me to have one or two DPS in the party that get themselves one shot the moment Hashmal and co so much as look at them. Do you realise how frustrating it would be for my performance to be tethered to their (in)ability to even stay alive through simple mechanics?

No thank you =(

[Enla]

This would absolutely kill 24 mans for me. I've got 97-99% logs in Rabanastre and I can confidently say I've never let a tank die that didn't get themselves killed via failing one of the few mechanics that can actually kill a tank there. However, it's pretty much standard faire for me to have one or two DPS in the party that get themselves one shot the moment Hashmal and co so much as look at them. Do you realise how frustrating it would be for my performance to be tethered to their (in)ability to even stay alive through simple mechanics?

No thank you =(

This. The problem here is bad players, not a flawed system. If everyone is down or dying and the boss is almost dead, how is a debuff on the healer's DPS going to do anything to help? Even if you do implement it the bad healers will still try to eek out as much DPS as possible and leave you stranded because there's a fundamental disconnect in their minds between what's good for the party and what they themselves want to do. A debuff will only hurt the healers who can juggle both.

[Chronons]

I've often played around with the idea that boss mobs could have the low chance to randomly target party members and move them to the top of the aggro list. Provoke/Ultimatum would need to have their cool downs reduced. I think you could leave the fights just the way they have always been but add a little randomness to it.

It would force dps to take a more active role in aggro management as opposed to how is is now (the on cooldown use of things like diversion). Tanks have to take a more active and dynamic role in aggro management watching for random swaps and perhaps swapping back to tank stance out of dps to re-establish a lead on hate. Healers would potentially have a reason to cast something other than regen or medica on a dps.

It would annoy speedrunners I'm sure and would arguably make the game more difficult in some ways. However, it would make fights fresh and unique every time you fought them with no big change to the basic content formula.

[Ayer2015]

Just thought of one that would change healing significantly. No more in combat rezing.