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  1. #31
    Player DDkiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    96
    Character
    Shria Qestir
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos View Post
    Some of us enjoy a properly paced story with character development and plot points that happen without being rushed like a Saturday morning cartoon on fast forward.
    But the story is still bad, most of character are writen badly and not believable, like Lyse, she is just empty forced annoying character. Its same cartoon, but its full of filler episodes instead of every episode being good and enjoyable.
    (4)

  2. #32
    Player
    Sylvina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,102
    Character
    Sylvina Eon
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    I think the one slog which actually felt like a real slog in the MSQ was the wild goose chase of quests you have to do before fighting Titan for the first time. For the rest I was too busy enjoying the story.
    (1)

  3. #33
    Player
    JCharms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    194
    Character
    Maybelline Charmers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 70
    While it did slow down in a couple of spots, I didn't mind the 1 to 50 journey, ending with The Praetorium.
    The 100 quest slog(2.1 - 2.55), and I call it that because that's how it felt for the most part, had me questioning whether I would continue beyond the month that came with the purchase of the game.
    Way too much time filler pushed in for what could easily be reduced to 5 missions max.
    If I were the head of the studio, I would of allowed the player the choice of heading up to the gates of Ishgard after finishing Praetorium, with a pop up pointing them to the inn so they could watch the relevant plot changes to that point, and do the same with HW, allowing players to progress to SB after finishing Aetherochemical Research.
    But eh, they couldn't sell the skip potions then. :P
    (3)

  4. #34
    Player
    Berethos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,195
    Character
    Celie Lothaire
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by DDkiki View Post
    But the story is still bad, most of character are writen badly and not believable, like Lyse, she is just empty forced annoying character. Its same cartoon, but its full of filler episodes instead of every episode being good and enjoyable.
    Disagree heartily on this (opinions are fun that way, aren't they?) Of course, I can actually articulate why I think the story is at worst acceptable and in many places quite good, but I get the feeling writing that up would end up being too long for you (considering you found even the short 4.1 MSQ to be "insanely long").
    (2)

  5. #35
    Player
    Berethos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,195
    Character
    Celie Lothaire
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by JCharms View Post
    Way too much time filler pushed in for what could easily be reduced to 5 missions max.
    If I were the head of the studio, I would of allowed the player the choice of heading up to the gates of Ishgard after finishing Praetorium, with a pop up pointing them to the inn so they could watch the relevant plot changes to that point, and do the same with HW, allowing players to progress to SB after finishing Aetherochemical Research.
    While I agree with the option of allowing the player the choice after finishing Praetorium...

    I would love to hear just how you'd reduce 2.x to 5 missions.

    Wall of text incoming (going to hide since it will contain spoilers) as to why I think the idea it can be "easily" reduced that much isn't feasible and misses the point of that section of the story:

    In short - there's a lot of stuff that happens in 2.x that's actually important to the ongoing plot or relevant to ongoing character development, without even taking episodic story pacing into account. You have the crew wanting to get out of Thanalan and into neutral territory - the Scions acting as a neutral third party organization with its own "army" of sorts ends up being important to the story, so you can't very well remove that. Minfilia not wanting to leave because of rumors about her adoptive mother and needing to seek her out isn't as strictly important, but it does make for some nice character development (again in the episodic sort of way - introduce a character in a smaller arc so you can use them more effectively in a bigger arc <--this happens quite a bit).

    While each primal does sort of feel like a "monster of the week" annoyance, they also use them to introduce additional information and aspects about how primals work in Eorzea and more about how the metaphysical side of Hydaelyn works. With Good King Moogle Mog XII, we learn that myth can be made manifest into a primal and it doesn't take an established essence of a deity. With Leviathan, we learn about how the Echo can transcend mortality and transfer souls between bodies (information that is used later to defeat Ascians). With Ramuh, we learn that some primals can maybe be reasoned with to a certain degree, but that also once a primal is created its essence can carry memories between summonings. With Shiva, we learn that a mortal can summon a primal into themselves and if they have the Echo not be tempered by it (also reinforces the idea that it doesn't have to be an established deity). Those elements tie into dealing with Ascians at the time, Ravana later, as well as the Warring Triad, and continue to be relevant to our conflict with the Ascians.

    The refugee stuff, both Ala Mhigan and Doman - you see the plight of the Ala Mhigans even more than before, and with it the political turmoil in Ul'dah that is tied up in it, and obviously that is important to setting up the betrayal by Ilberd and ultimately our moving into Ala Mhigo in the first place, as well as events after the liberation revolving around the Sultana and Rauhban. You meet the Domans and are introduced to their trouble while they are also being established as a stalwart ally, such that when we decide pushing to liberate Doma in a bid to distract the Empire and give the Ala Mhigan resistance time to recoup it doesn't come out of left field and is instead us looking to help the people that have stood by us since before we even thought about setting foot in Ishgard. A lot of that is setup for a believable way for Eorzea to get dragged into fighting to free Ala Mhigo - they hadn't done anything for 20 years and had clearly expressed a hesitance to engage in anything that the Garleans might perceive as an invasion (so as to avoid retribution), so really only a story arc that puts them in a political and military situation that drags them into unwillingly (through the machinations of one who has been established as one who will do anything to see Ala Mhigo free) is one that will feasibly work...and that's what we got. Good luck trimming that one down.

    Then there's the lead-in to the Dragonsong War - we weren't going to just waltz into Ishgard and say "hey what's up Dragon Pope?" They'd kept their doors closed for sometime at that point, so the story needed a viable reason for us to be trusted enough to be allowed to enter. Dealing with bleed over from the actions of heretics and the dragons into areas outside of Coerthas, as well as the friendly diplomatic elements (with a non-city state aligned third party - not the only part that element ends up mattering in how the story plays out, plus giving the story creators more freedom with what the Scions can do) with Aymeric, serve to do just that, setting the stage for our dramatic assistance at the Steps of Faith...an act worthy of earning the sponsorship (with a bit of help from Haurchefant) of House Fortemps so that we can enter the city at all.

    Mixed in there's various character moments to help establish or continue development of various motivations or personalities and such, and the occasional actual filler like assisting the newer members of the Adventurer's Guild in Mor Dhona by showing them how it's done, fetching tea (though this is clearly meant to be used for both pacing coming off a more action oriented bit and for some comedy - of course the hero of the hour shouldn't be running errands, but gosh darn it everyone is busy and Tataru asked so nicely, right?), and there's a lot of connective story tissue in 2.x...


    So I'd really love to see how that would "easily" be trimmed to just five missions, without removing any of the important stuff and without the story playing out like the abridged children's book version of a Disney movie (if you've seen them, you know exactly what I'm talking about). Honestly, I'd love to see it done and being allowed to remove 50% of the important story stuff.
    (1)

  6. #36
    Player
    Rokke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,624
    Character
    Novia Marius
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    As someone who joined during HW and wanted to jump into HW to play with friends as soon as I could, 2.x's slog was about as enjoyable as a root canal- and I love this game's story. 2.0 had some weird paced bits, but overall msq was enjoyable. 2.x's story itself isn't bad, but the 100 something fetchquests in a row stringing the story along is god awful. I hate that part of the game so much, $18 skip is worth every penny on an alt lol
    (0)
    Last edited by Rokke; 11-25-2017 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #37
    Player
    Nightroad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    275
    Character
    Linu La'neral
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    I am running a 3rd alt through it at the moment , and while it can be a bit tedious, doing a few quests and then something else along the way helps.
    But could someone tell the other Scions we have link perls ? This run to one and speak there and then "lets all go back to HQ" is funny. ( in a bad way).

    Ok , I confess , I am doing it for the Hildegard quests ....
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player
    Naunet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3,004
    Character
    Mide Uyagir
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos View Post
    Some of us enjoy a properly paced story with character development and plot points that happen without being rushed like a Saturday morning cartoon on fast forward.
    Except it's not properly paced at all, and the characters often suffer from the problem of, "Oh this character is getting sudden development, yup dead"... It's got some good notes, sure, but let's not pretend that FFXIV's story (ARR post-50 especially) is well-written.

    Quote Originally Posted by JCharms View Post
    While it did slow down in a couple of spots, I didn't mind the 1 to 50 journey, ending with The Praetorium.
    The 100 quest slog(2.1 - 2.55), and I call it that because that's how it felt for the most part, had me questioning whether I would continue beyond the month that came with the purchase of the game.
    Way too much time filler pushed in for what could easily be reduced to 5 missions max.
    If I were the head of the studio, I would of allowed the player the choice of heading up to the gates of Ishgard after finishing Praetorium, with a pop up pointing them to the inn so they could watch the relevant plot changes to that point, and do the same with HW, allowing players to progress to SB after finishing Aetherochemical Research.
    But eh, they couldn't sell the skip potions then. :P
    Agree 100%. I do not need to be playing messenger for the Scions when they can literally just call each other on their dang linkpearls themselves. I don't need a dozen quests dedicated to ferrying stupid "he said, she said" messages back and forth. While important plot points happen in the 2.0 post-50 story, the way they were delivered left a lot to be desired.
    (4)
    Last edited by Naunet; 11-25-2017 at 04:01 PM.

  9. #39
    Player
    JCharms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    194
    Character
    Maybelline Charmers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos View Post
    While I agree with the option of allowing the player the choice after finishing Praetorium...
    So I'd really love to see how that would "easily" be trimmed to just five missions, without removing any of the important stuff and without the story playing out like the abridged children's book version of a Disney movie (if you've seen them, you know exactly what I'm talking about). Honestly, I'd love to see it done and being allowed to remove 50% of the important story stuff.
    I suppose I wasn't clear in my meaning.
    I realise there's no way to trim the existing to 5 missions/quests, my suggestion revolves around making 5 new quests that would be somewhat long with the cut scene, and that would be enough to address the key narrative points of the story, just without all the travelling, choco butt sniffing and bag carrying stuff that was bloated on purpose because they were content patches of the time for people that wanted stuff to do.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    Hasrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    3,288
    Character
    Hashmael Lightswain
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Honestly, I think devs could do a lot to streamline a ton of quests if they followed one simple rule.

    If the character you are speaking to for step x of a quest, is the same character you need to speak to for step y of the same quest (or if they are at least present among those gathered at step y), just teleport the player along with the NPC and continue the quest dialog.

    The back and forth messenger quests would go a lot quicker if they didn't stutter so much with stop and start steps. Not sure if they're trying to avoid putting quests on tracks or whatever, but many quests would just feel more concise and better paced if the player could simply travel along with NPCs for simple communication quests.

    And yeah, the Linkpearls would've been a smart solution, too, but kinda hard to backpeddle on that now.
    (1)

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