Just want to play black mage, man.

[Remedi]

As I said, this is untrue before you reach Trios in Ultimate's progression.

Deaths during Nael phase can snowball easily with the fire/ice mechanic

[zuzu-bq]

Yeah, thats why quick multiple raises can fix it. I said that earlier on the thread. Also if you get less than 3 deaths you can just be smart with Fire outs and avoid having Ice deaths. My point was that even though Raises can't give you the victory, they let you see more of a fight.

[Remedi]

What makes you see more of a fight is consistency, which requires you to wipe to a mechanic till you are comfortable with it even comfortable enough to survive it with 1 death, in a 18+ fight like that you want to learn it phase by phase which makes the seeing the next mechanic argument pointless.
Your goal is to learn each of the mechanics before you think about the next, you don't think about the golden phase if you barely survived the nael+twin.

So pls let's stop overestimating the effectiveness of raises on that fight, especially since this was a thing between SMN raise and RDM raise which honestly I stand by what I said SMN bring more on that fight than RDM while providing the right amount of failsafe necessry to kill it

[Pyroclastic]

Makes thread to bring the lack of existance of BLM's to light.

Gets 3 pages of RDM vs SMN duscussion... FF9 feels all over again

[Remedi]

Ye kinda OT but tbh we kinda already have a thread about BLMs problems, that aside Vivi was better than the other 2 wanna be dps imho

[zuzu-bq]

I'm saying what made my group see more of Nael, which was basically raises and dealing with Fire outs on multiple people to work around deaths.

When progressing Deltascape fights I went RDM for Neo until people got consistent on pre GCO mechanics and went BLM when I didn't need to raise them anymore to just see GCO each pull. While you say people overestimate Raises by telling you their experience with raise on prog you're underestimating it with no real base. Plus, yeah SMN is miles way better, I was just stating what a RDM can bring that a SMN can't and that is only the mass raising. Everything else SMN does better.

There is already a better thread about BLM's issues too.

[Remedi]

No1 is stating that SMN can chain raise, the point is that what RDM brings in general hardly makes a difference, now for some groups can have some difference but generally speaking it's as big as a difference

[Sylvain]

As much as materia set would be nice
If you're doing Unending Coil I believe you are full savage gear, so I don't think that missing some SpellSpeed will make you unviable, otherwise it would mean most BLM currently working on Shinryu with around 330 ilv are inadequat, which is not true.

I don,t say your suggestion regarding materia wouldn't be nice, it would. But your conclusion is a bit off imo.

Inability to raise seems to be more of an issue

[Dyvid]

So do we remove raise from caster all together then or just make it a job action ability?

[Kabooa]

So do we remove raise from caster all together then or just make it a job action ability?

Personally, I'd remove it from Summoner. Make it an action learned when becoming a Scholar at Level 30 alongside Adloqium.

For Red Mage, I'd have Dualcast increase the potency of a spell and it's MP cost as well. That brings Verraise into manageable territory while also giving them a needed damage boost. Something like +10% Potency, +20% MP cost.

For Black Mage, there's already a billion suggestions out there. Pick any two or three of the more reasonable ones.