World First tank line up confirmed

[MyaValentine]

Take your own advice, sweetheart. It's an example not an absolute. She's arguing DRK is balanced yet it's objectively inferior at every aspect. She's been asked by multiple people now to explain what it does better than either of PLD or WAR and in lieu of answering the question, went on a silly rant about the community.

and I've answered multiple times that, just because the class is 1% less eficient that the otehr 2 doesn't mean is not balanced, and my rant with the community is related to the fact you and the community is too centered on "the facts" and "the numbers" and how paladin and war does everything else but better because "balance and "meta" when in in FACT all classes are in a almost perfect spot they are all extremely similar in performance and I've said multiple times that drk needs small adjustment but other than that EVERY SINGLE TANK is in a really good spot and this forum section is filled with overdramatization becase people don't like to be third place, the simple fact that drk beated ultimate doesn't mean the class is "viable" it means it works, there's nothing wrong with it aside from personal preference and entitlement. the only argument that I get behind is that they class is too simple now but that's personal preference when it comes to performance there's nothing you loose by bringing a DRK as you did by bringing a palading in 3.0 or a war in 2.0

[WhyAmIHere]

and I've answered multiple times that, just because the class is 1% less eficient that the otehr 2 doesn't mean is not balanced, and my rant with the community is related to the fact you and the community is too centered on "the facts" and "the numbers" and how paladin and war does everything else but better because "balance and "meta" when in in FACT all classes are in a almost perfect spot they are all extremely similar in performance and I've said multiple times that drk needs small adjustment but other than that EVERY SINGLE TANK is in a really good spot and this forum section is filled with overdramatization becase people don't like to be third place, the simple fact that drk beated ultimate doesn't mean the class is "viable" it means it works, there's nothing wrong with it aside from personal preference and entitlement. the only argument that I get behind is that they class is too simple now but that's personal preference when it comes to performance there's nothing you loose by bringing a DRK as you did by bringing a palading in 3.0 or a war in 2.0

Between the time where WAR had it's potencies/gauge cost for switching stances, and the changes to SiO: was WAR in balance with the other two tanks?

[MyaValentine]

Between the time where WAR had it's potencies/gauge cost for switching stances, and the changes to SiO: was WAR in balance with the other two tanks?

on 4.0 I made a thread and agreed that war was in a bad spot I play all 3 tanks and I want to see all 3 of them performing good, on 4.05 war did got extremely better than 4.0 they fixed the rotation and major issues it had and I'd argue yes warrior was in a good spot, while people argue that it's harder for war to bring number like pally for me it's personally easier as oposed to pally war has 1 mayor busrt window and 1 small (ofcourse if you mes sit up you screw a lot of your dps) but because paladin is more constant you have higher chances of screwing FoF or Spirit window ofcourse all this is subjective. was war balanced? Jus like DRK now, it was on a really good spot but it needed just 1 small adjustment which either was more dps or raid utility, they got raid utility and war right now is just perfect, it feels good to play it has the best damage and really good raid utility.

the problem with drk was that they honestly did a very bad job personally when they oversimplified the class from 3.x to 4.0 they made it what it was essentially paly on 2.x 2 combo, too easy, too simpe and most of the drk community liked drk because of how much management it required it had the defense and damage and the skill cieling was very high so going from 3.x to 4.x it felt like a downgrade And at that I agree all the way through. but the class is far from THE WORST TANK EVER, SE GIVE ANSWERS, YOU KILLED THE CLASS. Unless your name is on the top 10 fflogs the damage different bewteen tanks is nonexistent, if you need more dps you can do it by improving as a player, the defense while yes it's the weakest from all 3 is still just as freaking good as any, and tbn was god like until war got SiO and now for some reason TBN is not good anymore lol.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

and I've answered multiple times that, just because the class is 1% less eficient that the otehr 2 doesn't mean is not balanced, and my rant with the community is related to the fact you and the community is too centered on "the facts" and "the numbers" and how paladin and war does everything else but better because "balance and "meta" when in in FACT all classes are in a almost perfect spot they are all extremely similar in performance and I've said multiple times that drk needs small adjustment but other than that EVERY SINGLE TANK is in a really good spot and this forum section is filled with overdramatization becase people don't like to be third place, the simple fact that drk beated ultimate doesn't mean the class is "viable" it means it works, there's nothing wrong with it aside from personal preference and entitlement. the only argument that I get behind is that they class is too simple now but that's personal preference when it comes to performance there's nothing you loose by bringing a DRK as you did by bringing a palading in 3.0 or a war in 2.0

Yes, let's exclude those pesky facts and numbers. They just get in the way of an emotional outburst don't they? Sorry, but I prefer objective analysis over rants. So with that being said, let's compare...

- Shadow Wall is both weaker in mitigation, lacks a secondary characteristic and has a lower cooldown than Sentinel and Vengeance
- What answer does Dark Knight have for Equilibrium and Clemency? Oh right, nothing.
- Grit costs 1,800 MP and a GCD, Shield Oath costs less and Defiance doesn't have a cost period.
- Their single bit of raid utility comes with a built-in handicap. It only effects a single person and if the shield doesn't pop, you've lost DPS for essentially no gain. Divine Veil and Shake it Off cover the entire party with no drawback.
- How does Dark Knight counter Passage of Arms, Inner Beast or Thrill of Battle?

These are not small adjustments nor over-dramatizations to say DRK is objectively inferior. Some people may care about being in third place, I don't. I mained bloody SAM this tier, and it has fallen hard since 4.0. Likewise, I couldn't care less about meta. I simply don't want any job to be inferior at everything. To say there is nothing wrong only demonstrates ignorance and is why PLD remained the redheaded step-child for two years. The fact you'll claim you lost nothing bringing PLD to a fight like A3S or A12S only further shows you don't know tanks. Note, viability and balance are not the same thing. PLD, like DRK now, could do every fight. It simply wasn't nearly as good as its counterparts.

All the WF clear proves is how good those players are otherwise, who cares if Summoner now out-dpses both BLM and SAM while bringing far superior utility. Who cares they marginally buffed DRG, the job that needed it the least. If we're going to make a viability argument, then job discussion should end completely since everything can clear and only that matters.

but the class is far from THE WORST TANK EVER, SE GIVE ANSWERS, YOU KILLED THE CLASS. Unless your name is on the top 10 fflogs the damage different bewteen tanks is nonexistent, if you need more dps you can do it by improving as a player, the defense while yes it's the weakest from all 3 is still just as freaking good as any, and tbn was god like until war got SiO and now for some reason TBN is not good anymore lol.

Because some twat on reddit said DRK is dead with a straight face (keep in mind, people meme), you're going to base an entire argument around it? None of us here care nor have said DRK can't clear content. We simply used facts-- yes, those pesky things again-- to demonstrate why it needs some rather noteworthy adjustments. For whatever reason, SE only seem to respond when you beat them over the head with said issues. Warriors got their adjustments by never shutting up and insisting the job wasn't playable. WHM got theirs for the same reason. So...

[DRKoftheAzure]

Gratz to the world 1st group that used DRK... enough incentive for me to keep paying my sub so long as Yoshi-P gradually fixes the things wrong with DRK... like every major patch update but just fixing it enough to see if people like the would-be changes like with what they did with WAR...

[NellMoshroca]

I think the reason DRK's need for buffs has gotten to the point of calling it unplayable is because SE hasn't talked about it since before SB launch. Square isn't acknowledging the issues with the job so we keep talking about it without any input from the devs and may have started to exaggerate out of desperation for them to mention that DRK's still exist.

[Deathshiro]

Jus like DRK now, it was on a really good spot but it needed just 1 small adjustment which either was more dps or raid utility, they got raid utility

TBN is not raid utility, raid utility is RAID WIDE... TBN is one person, that is not a good excuse to not give us something in exchange (Especially since the other two tanks sacrifice NOTHING to give their utility)

Unless your name is on the top 10 fflogs the damage different bewteen tanks is nonexistent, if you need more dps you can do it by improving as a player, the defense while yes it's the weakest from all 3 is still just as freaking good as any, and tbn was god like until war got SiO and now for some reason TBN is not good anymore lol.

I got #1 on Alte Roite as a DRK.... soooo? More dps is always a good thing, making clears faster means less time spent using mitigation and less time healers need to heal you. TBN was never good, I really only use it on my opener to get an easy delirium then never touch it again. Intervention + reprisal >>>> tbnasty any day, you don't lose anything for it and they are both up in a quick time.... trust me you never need tbn every 15 seconds, plus if you have that much mana on your drk you are probably doing something wrong..

[Inuk9]

Take your own advice, sweetheart. It's an example not an absolute. She's arguing DRK is balanced yet it's objectively inferior at every aspect. She's been asked by multiple people now to explain what it does better than either of PLD or WAR and in lieu of answering the question, went on a silly rant about the community.

No she's not, take your time and read her post again. It can be difficult but I'm sure you can do it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No she's not, take your time and read her post again. It can be difficult but I'm sure you can do it.

B-But MU TUNK BALANCE... I've been saying it for a while now

tank perform extremely well the problem is not the tanks is the players.

And that's only from a single page. I know you're hung up over my example, but it changes nothing regarding the argument. Would you prefer I say "meta'? It's silly semantic when the crux of her argument is validity equates to balance when that is simply not the case. DRK isn't balanced against PLD or WAR. That's it. I know it's hard but you really should take your own advice.

[DaulBan]

I think the reason DRK's need for buffs has gotten to the point of calling it unplayable is because SE hasn't talked about it since before SB launch. Square isn't acknowledging the issues with the job so we keep talking about it without any input from the devs and may have started to exaggerate out of desperation for them to mention that DRK's still exist.

Probably because they're waiting for an LL for them to mention any changes if I had to guess. The Devs absolutely will not mention numerical changes before patch notes for 3.2 come out, it'd be super out of place for them to do that.

It's always weird with this forum how people seem to think that the devs will break form and talk about something in a way they never have before. If you guys are expecting them to talk about it wait for an interview or the LL. Enough traffic has been made on the back of DRK fix requests that it's literally impossible that the devs haven't heard of the concerns.