4.1 and us healers

[Tridus]

YoshiP on Scholars:

"When talking about damage source alone, the overall balance within the same roles have lined up after 4.06, so there aren't many changes to direct damage dealt. The jp audience is a little loud when it comes to scholar, but from the data they have, they can see all 3 healers are rather close to equal. The top players prefer using scholar and a lot of them are using scholar, so they think the playerbase's "impression" on scholar is disurbing with the actual gap between the healers."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...y_translation/

[Riyshn]

Except... very few people are saying that SCH needs more damage or that it's not holding up at top level play. It's lower level play that SCH's mishmash of a kit falls apart, particularly in 4-man content, and it's just not fun at all for that.

I'll repeat what I said when we were told about the Indom/ET buffs in 4.06: I'm really afraid that we're going to get the same treatment AST did in 3.x, where a few of our numbers are pumped high enough that the job is able to ride on that alone, instead of fixing any of the actual problems with the job.

[Trunks]

I'll repeat what I said when we were told about the Indom/ET buffs in 4.06: I'm really afraid that we're going to get the same treatment AST did in 3.x, where a few of our numbers are pumped high enough that the job is able to ride on that alone, instead of fixing any of the actual problems with the job.

This is where WHM is at right now, I feel. It does so much healing and damage that there's nothing "wrong" with it, on paper. But play it for 5 minutes and you realize that it's mechanically uninteresting, its "strengths" are largely moot, and its weaknesses don't yield any discernible benefit. Whatever else is wrong with SCH, its devotees still seem to be enjoying it. Maybe it's just me, but since the Cleric Stance change I've found WHM to be intolerably boring, and I've pretty much switched to AST full-time now (which I swore up and down would never happen). AST's toolkit is diverse enough that when there's a wipe, I am always thinking of how I can adjust to improve my play. With WHM it's just, "welp I cast Cure III ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". Outside of 4-man trash groups, it's utterly unrewarding.

[Ghishlain]

Ok, lets take a look at some of the top speed runs done in fflogs by SCH/WHM combos and compare their actual total oGCD healing done in a savage raid situation.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/F7qar...pe=damage-done
WHM - 1670000
SCH - 1488400
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/jv3Wz...0&type=healing
WHM - 1202900
SCH - 1457000
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/xyHXJ...pe=damage-done
WHM - 1533000
SCH - 1832600
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/dcvZg...aling&source=5
WHM - 1525800
SCH - 1379800

WHM average - 1482925
SCH average - 1539450

WHM wins on 2 of those runs, while SCH wins out on 2 runs. The average done by SCH is slightly higher over those 4 runs by ~3.8%. But this doesn't take into account the HoT utility provided from Medica II because it was too hard to separate the hot portion from the actual base potency. Both healers end up having similar oGCD healing numbers in practice, even in the most difficult savage encounter.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/NPyVd...8&type=healing

Fastest WHM/SCH o3s run -

WHM - 1144900
SCH - 989400

WHM wins out here as well with the fastest o3s SCH/WHM run I could find.

It's nice to talk about how awesome SCH oGCD's are, and I won't deny that they are awesome, but WHM bring just as much potential to the table in raid encounters when they are forced to use their entire kits.

The flexibility of SCH oGCD + chain strategem is the reason SCH are preferred as the 2nd healer, because SCH in their current state depend on their co-healer to carry the brunt of all GCD healing.

Anyway, like I said if you buff WHM's damage by 10% or so while giving SCH the ability to carry GCD healing, you can start making a case for bringing more WHM to the top raids. Right now the utility of Chain Strategem and AF stacks is causing groups to use only AST/SCH combos with WHM being left out most of the time.

I actually had to go to the 2nd page to find WHM/SCH combos for o4s because they're so ridiculously rare.

I've been contemplating how to respond to this since you posted it and I figure the best thing I can say is I'll just agree to disagree at this point. I don't feel the changes you're proposing would help the SCH/WHM dynamic any further and instead push WHM completely out from a competitive standpoint, even with a 10% increase in WHM's DPS potential.

You can explain the difference in non-GCD based total healing in a myriad amount of different ways and not necessarily because the WHM non-GCD healing kit matches the SCH non-GCD healing hit. I've already proven that to be far from the case just in reflection.

The first log you linked had the SCH die so their healing potential will be hampered for a period of time.

Likewise the second log you linked also shown the WHM died. I also have the added knowledge of knowing the RDM in that log is the raid leader as she's an extremely close friend of mine and looking at the date stamp that was around the time they were trialing a new WHM because their previous healer had to have real life commitments. Also take into account that the SCH's previous healing partner was an AST so she might've not had time to adjust to the different player kit and tool set.

Both the third and fourth log you linked have the WHMs with a similar level of non-GCD healing done but dramatically different SCH non-GCD heals. Also take into account that the parse with the lower non-GCD healing also resulted in higher DPS numbers for that respective player.

All in all, this doesn't really show me anything about reinforcing your position but instead just shows that different groups tackle the fight differently based on their compositions and adapt to each players' strengths and skill sets to make it work, as well as adapt to encounter design.

At this point in time I don't think there's too much else to say. Again, I'll just say we'll most likely have to agree to disagree.


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In other news, the developer blog showed off the 4.1 simplified UI changes. You can find the pictures for the SCH one below:

[Caduagm]

Give ast more dps and something to weave our ogcds for the God's sake. We are the healer with most ogcds and ONLY COMBUST to weave pls. Also buff malefic 3 because having the same potency than cleric malefic 2 is just BS. ALSO THE BUFF ON COMBUST 2 WAS NOT WORTH THE LOST OF COMBUST 1.

[KDSilver]

I only agree for the "something else to weave oGcd for Ast"
Otherwise, he doesn't need more dps.

[Ametrine]

Snip.

I think a part of this may be from the original idea that WHM in SB was designed to be the "My First Healer™" job for players, and to fulfil the niche of players that wanted a healer that primarily focuses on just healing.

It's supposed to be easy to grasp, the cost of it a being bit boring compared to other jobs. That might be why the Lily and Confession system is so secondary and unnecessary feeling. Thing is, RDM now carries a big "this is easy to gitgud at" sign, too, and no one is too worried about a DPS being easy to understand. YMMV.

I'm currently grinding WHM to 70 so my opinion doesn't have the weight of a main WHM player, but I've always fell into that same opinion as you, only to later end up going through phases of playing WHM constantly from how less stressful it can feel some days to play healer easy-mode, ha. Except, screw Cleric Stance. I don't miss that crap at all.

[Ametrine]

I apologize for double post, but the prelim patch notes are up, and other than all the rumored SCH buffs, we can see AST card status in the party lists again!


And that Selene will now use Esuna on herself. K.

[Johaandr]

Give ast more dps and something to weave our ogcds for the God's sake. We are the healer with most ogcds and ONLY COMBUST to weave pls. Also buff malefic 3 because having the same potency than cleric malefic 2 is just BS. ALSO THE BUFF ON COMBUST 2 WAS NOT WORTH THE LOST OF COMBUST 1.

No no i like the way ast is. Besides cards compansate for our dps.

[era1Ne]

Give ast more dps and something to weave our ogcds for the God's sake. We are the healer with most ogcds and ONLY COMBUST to weave pls. Also buff malefic 3 because having the same potency than cleric malefic 2 is just BS. ALSO THE BUFF ON COMBUST 2 WAS NOT WORTH THE LOST OF COMBUST 1.

I would only be ok with an dmg buff, if the nerf balance hard. I do agree with an skill to weave, tho. If they don't want to nerf balance, then they should nerf malefic and add an new instant dot skill.