Shouldn't Virus be a healer debuff again?

[Laerune]

Oh Jesus, this too, so much. We're already seeing healers building macros to swap their skills around between pulls. If it's suddenly required for healers to have Virus, what do we give up? Protect? Swiftcast??

Protect and Esuna should just be part of AST/WHM/SCH job skills. Every healer has those two skills on their hotbar, I reckon it would be better to make remove those skills from the Role Skills.

One could also say that Protect is a skill that every group needs, so why not make it a passive trait for healers? When someone joins a group with a WHM/SCH/AST, they too get this passive trait.

[RosaLunaCelestia]

With all changements, I not see how I could we use it if they add it back :/

My healers jobs all are full. So there is not place available :/

[Ametrine]

Protect and Esuna should just be part of AST/WHM/SCH job skills. Every healer has those two skills on their hotbar, I reckon it would be better to make remove those skills from the Role Skills.

One could also say that Protect is a skill that every group needs, so why not make it a passive trait for healers? When someone joins a group with a WHM/SCH/AST, they too get this passive trait.

What's messed up is Protect was supposed to be cut in SB as ability bloat, but knew players would get loud without it, despite being able to simply tweak baddies in new content to work under the idea we lack that little buff. We really never require the skill, but since it's there and DOES help, every healer has it and everyone expects to play with it up!

[Tint]

What's messed up is Protect was supposed to be cut in SB as ability bloat, but knew players would get loud without it, despite being able to simply tweak baddies in new content to work under the idea we lack that little buff. We really never require the skill, but since it's there and DOES help, every healer has it and everyone expects to play with it up!

the real problem is... i play tank. when i don't get a protect at the start of an instance, i don't know what to do. when i just run off without it the healer will probably get mad, because he wanted to cast it. i don't want to wait forever for a buff i maybe will never get. and i don't want to ask the healer every single time if he wants to use protect or not: i mean i don't care. it's a buff to make his life easier, not mine...

[Kurando]

To be honest, I never liked the other healers being able to access it originally to begin with. Aside from SCH/SMN because of ACN heritage and the trait bonus, Virus was always better suited as a DPS action.

More of a rant but it used to annoy me to no end when I'd know a big attack was coming from the boss and would ready Virus (as SMN) but then a WHM throws it out of nowhere, not only without the trait bonus but also blocking me out for using it again on the target for a period of time.

Well anyway, it's all moot since Virus got broke in to two versions and split between the DPS jobs...

[Ametrine]

snip

That's fine,and I understand that you don't want to rude but are aware that it's an odd situation but that's not what we're saying. Protect is technically unnecessary, but since it's in our kits and has utility that we can use, and we learn it very early on, it ends up being the thing we learn after "this button hurts baddies" and "this button heals goodies." But, the role system just doesn't work well on healers.

If Virus were given to healers as a -required- skill, Protect would likely be the one to go despite how jarring that idea is. The only option is Esuna which is FAR more dangerous to lose in certain instances. Or, that final personal slot that does vary healer by healer; Largesse, Cleric Stance, or Eye for an Eye.

But look. Healers have 5 slots for role skills, and only ONE is free for us to slap what we want in there to operate at an expected minimum.

Protect, Swiftcast, Lucid Dreaming, Esuna. No healer wants to lose these 4 skills, and I don't think a tank or DPS would be in the right to try to force their healer to. Worth mentioning the vast majority of us take Largesse in that last slot as it's our heal potency buff, and was a vital tool to WHM's original kit. SCH and AST kept their versions of this skill, Rouse and Lightspeed, so technically, a WHM doesn't have any free role slots.

This is actually an issue with the role system healers have been salty about since SB. It's pretty useless to have so many role skills when we all REQUIRE the same ones!

[Tint]

This is actually an issue with the role system healers have been salty about since SB. It's pretty useless to have so many role skills when we all REQUIRE the same ones!

it's not that different for tanks ^^ and my opinion is that Darkside is in a similar spot like Protect (activate it once and then remove it from your hotbar), but at least i don't have to use a role action slot for it >.>

however, i wanted to further point out that even if you WANT to remove protect from your cross-action slots, you simply can't because everyone will expect you to cast it at the start of an instance and you have to explain yourself everytime single time for not using it.

[Daralii]

Protect and Esuna should just be part of AST/WHM/SCH job skills. Every healer has those two skills on their hotbar, I reckon it would be better to make remove those skills from the Role Skills.

One could also say that Protect is a skill that every group needs, so why not make it a passive trait for healers? When someone joins a group with a WHM/SCH/AST, they too get this passive trait.

I'm not sure why they cut Leeches and Exalted Detriment to consolidate everything under Esuna. The result was just another mandatory healer job action.

[Fynlar]

Oh Jesus, this too, so much. We're already seeing healers building macros to swap their skills around between pulls. If it's suddenly required for healers to have Virus, what do we give up? Protect? Swiftcast??

IMO Virus was practically useless outside of savage/"world 1st!" content anyway. No fights outside of those produce tank busters that hit so hard that you needed Virus just to reasonably survive, which is really about the only time such an ability proved particularly useful.

With the megapulling mentality usually adopted in typical 4-man content, how is a 10% reduction on damage on a single mob for 10 seconds going to help in any significant way?

[KDSilver]

My question isn't to know to who it suits the most.

But the fact that being in DPS role action system right now and that most of them don't use it.

Fynlar : I'm not talking about 4-man content if you read all my post
I'm talking about 8-man content.
And no, this isn't useless. Mitigation is never useless. And no you don't need to do savage race to be efficient et want to use everyskill you have.
Cause if we go further in that opinion, every kind of mitigation skill in this game would useless : reprisal, troubadour...
Back in HW, some classes like War hard a damages reducer on his rotation (-10%), same for monk & Dk (for magic damages), paladin (physical damages).
Today, it has been removed, and the only to mitigate is using Reprisal, Addle, Feint and such.
If we have those, it isn't to just sit on our toolbar for nothing.

If you're not a healer, you probably never had the occasion to watch en encounter and its proper damage and how to handle it.
Or, people were just simply mitigating it without you noticing it and you just thought "lol, it doesn't hurt"
Also, maybe you never went on Extreme trials with pretty bad gears because it's totally new (aren't the best example since they were quite easy, even if their aoe hurt at the beginning)
If you think damages in this game are just healers doing the job on their own, you had it all wrong. This is about teamwork and everyclass has thing to help eachother.

So now please. This thread is an open debate indeed, but don't dare commenting if you don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you.