When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

[Aomine1992]

This is crazy talk Ive seen dragoons and ninjas melt mobs faster than two casters, you keep talkin about the tank when Im playing dragoon I just simply move to get the best aim as long as the tank is using df cool downs. And if they are using aoe as well because wow dang if dps want even use aoe then the amount of tanks that dont use it is even worse, a good tank will use their aoe as well if they are doing this then dragoon can do tons of aoe damage

Tons of aoe at 70 but sub 70 drg aoe is awful lol and I'm one of those drgs who aoe is I cringe the whole time when I see 1k and 2k dmg before I hit 70....At 70 sure I can do more if I ave all four stacks for LOTD

[Deithwen]

Tons of aoe at 70 but sub 70 drg aoe is awful lol and I'm one of those drgs who aoe is I cringe the whole time when I see 1k and 2k dmg before I hit 70....At 70 sure I can do more if I ave all four stacks for LOTD

Nastrond is surely a great aoe, but you have other skills to use. Just read the post above you.

[Hruodig]

Tons of aoe at 70 but sub 70 drg aoe is awful lol and I'm one of those drgs who aoe is I cringe the whole time when I see 1k and 2k dmg before I hit 70....At 70 sure I can do more if I ave all four stacks for LOTD

If you think sub 70 drg aoe is "awful" then you don't really know your own class that well.

[Snow_Princess]

Hey, to be honest. I'd rather have a newbie 60-70 that doesn't aoe over a 70 WHM that think a WAR is a PLD. Tell said WAR to put up sword oath (lol) and when said WAR has to use her last resort skill to stay alive (Holmgang) and doesn't get any heals, dropping dead to the ground and partywipe, said WAR is then being blamed for standing in three aoe's (because of Holmgang). Yeah... sad truth... I had one of these and I was so lived by the end that I asked to be vote kicked LOL Healer was so dumb that you couldn't even get it through her thick skull that one, I was WAR and not a PLD and that I couldn't move when Holmgang was active.

That is a wrong bias to have. For a long time I can't tell names apart esp when I do not play the jobs. I know how to heal, and I know when a tank has too much damage so I may comment "shield oath" regardless who the tank was. (Now I learned the names a bit better from playing them, but the war stances are too alike for me to type out so I just say go tank stance when there is a need to)

So basically "I would rather have people know how to play their jobs over knowing the exact names of things"

rest what you said is fair though, cept holmagang being last resort, it can be used more freely when knowing they are pulling big.

[Cylla]

for one , holmgang isnt a last resot skill it should be planed just like hg on big pulls not used when u have 25 percent health. If you know a mob is gona hit hard then you should use holmgang without u feeling like your about to die. Also warriors I agree are squishy imo but they have really good cool downs that are up every two mins. What tank you are really doesnt matter because they all can do dungeons just the same, but i mean on whm I literally barely have to heal because of benediction and temmargram however u spell it. But it seems like that whm wasnt using their skills well. But sorry for ur bad experience still doesnt change the fact dps should still aoe I dont see how the two even go together.

It actually was my last option. I had went through all my defense cool downs with still a handful of mobs on me before the 2nd boss in Bardam's Mettle. WHM 'thought' she could heal through it and demanded that I do big pulls. Mind you and I will admit, I was only in level 63 dungeon gear at the time and as squishy as warriors are..ohboy. I gave the benefit of the doubt since it was a WHM. At roughly 50% of my HP I holmgang in the hopes that I'd get a benediction, tetragrammaton, but nope. Not even Assize or Asylum were used. Just kept trying to spam cure II to keep me alive which didn't work. I main WHM also and I was just floored by how a 70 WHM didn't use anything but cure II. I don't even think there was even a regen popped on. And yes, what tank I am doesn't matter because Defiance is the same as Sword Oath but the fact that we tried to correct her in her errors and tell her what holmgang does she tried to grab at anything she could to put the blame on me. Irritating to say the least.

Point I'm making is, there dumber things/people that I find more irritating over people who don't AoE. Yes you're right, there is no excuse for people to not be doing AoE. Honestly, I see a pack of mobs and think, "Woohoo AoE happy time!" but guess some people don't have that mind set. The best you can do is ask/give advice for them to AoE or tell them that it'll help their dps/mobs die faster. Sure, you can vote kick them on this reason alone. GM's don't care because they hide behind the stance of 'different play style' so you have no worry about getting a slap on the wrist by a GM if reported for it. Unless maybe every one you vote kick report you for it, then a GM may look into it. But if you vote kick that person without saying a word, you're no better for vote kicking someone who may have actually listened to some advice.

And yes, I've had quite a lot of groups that I've gotten into where dps doesn't aoe. It stupid, there no reason for them not to be doing it but in most cases if I ask them to aoe or my dungeon partner says, "Hey, want to aoe?" they'll do it.

But I suppose we have different opinions on what the worst thing to get paired with in dungeons is but, both do go together. It boil down to new people not listening to advice or as I like to call them, 'newbie know it all' where they like to tell you how their going to play and you either deal with it or leave (or vote kick). I think if you're going to use vote kick for this reason - at least ask them a couple of times to AoE and if they don't want to listen or get nasty, well then suppose by all means if it bugs you that much hit the vote kick.

[Cylla]

That is a wrong bias to have. For a long time I can't tell names apart esp when I do not play the jobs. I know how to heal, and I know when a tank has too much damage so I may comment "shield oath" regardless who the tank was. (Now I learned the names a bit better from playing them, but the war stances are too alike for me to type out so I just say go tank stance when there is a need to)

So basically "I would rather have people know how to play their jobs over knowing the exact names of things"

rest what you said is fair though, cept holmagang being last resort, it can be used more freely when knowing they are pulling big.

I just posted actually on this in more detail. I mean yes, I can say it wasn't my last resort option but it was all that I had left. Suppose no matter how I look at it as stated above, I was going to die because the healer wasn't using anything but cure II to try and keep me alive through a large pull.

Also I seriously think she honestly did not know the difference between the two jobs. Not a name issue. When I look at her lodestone she only had a 70 WHM. When she started going off about how I stood in three AoE, I tried to tell her, "Yes, because I had holmgang up and couldn't move." and when I said, "Now let do this my way and pull one pack of mobs at a time." she went into a fit and started saying, "Maybe you should put oath up." Yes, my Defiance was up 100% of the time. RDM in the group corrected her and said, "She's a WAR." "Maybe you should've used your defense cool downs." "I did, I went through all of them." It went back and forth until I finally just threw my hands up, stopped and said, "vote kick me. I'm not dealing with this anymore." We tried to explain it, she just wasn't getting it through her thick skull. So yes, to me having at least some knowledge of all jobs, at least your tanks as a healer would be nice.

*Small Edit - I will never claim to be a pro war, pld, or drk. I only tank dungeons and that as far as I'll go, or old content. But when I've cycled through all the cool down's I have and there nothing up but holmgang, that what I hit in the hopes that the healer would toss me a big heal and I could cycle back through my cool downs. Maybe this is a bad train of thought but it never failed me until that day.

[Aomine1992]

Nastrond is surely a great aoe, but you have other skills to use. Just read the post above you.

Those other skills have longer CDs and arnt go to aoe skills like doom spike and sonic thrust..

If you think sub 70 drg aoe is "awful" then you don't really know your own class that well.

I know the class well it's my main and the aoe is awful this ex pack stop tying to bandwagon and lets not forget you won't hit all the targets even if you tried except with sonic thrust because it's a cone aoe but I won't argue with anyone about this stupid topic because you see some fancy math doesn't make it concrete especially when they account for Geri which isn't even going to be up for majority of your aoe

[Hruodig]

I know the class well it's my main and the aoe is awful this ex pack stop tying to bandwagon and lets not forget you won't hit all the targets even if you tried except with sonic thrust because it's a cone aoe but I won't argue with anyone about this stupid topic because you see some fancy math doesn't make it concrete especially when they account for Geri which isn't even going to be up for majority of your aoe

I'll chalk that down to "I don't know my own class that well and I refuse to look at basic math". I leveled drg to 70 in about a week and I never had any problems aoeing in dungeons, and I still don't in expert dungeons whenever I do decide to take it in there. Doom spike and sonic thrust are more than enough, on top of dragonfire dive and geirskogul. Your aoe is perfectly fine, and if you refuse to use it then you're bad.

Also "just because you see some fancy math doesn't make it concrete" is one of the funniest things I've read so far in this thread, and boy have there been some laugh worthy stuff.

Also, sonic thrust is a line aoe, not a conal aoe. Me and a few friends have tested this. Again, congrats on not knowing your class.

[HyoMinPark]

I know the class well it's my main and the aoe is awful this ex pack stop tying to bandwagon and lets not forget you won't hit all the targets even if you tried except with sonic thrust because it's a cone aoe but I won't argue with anyone about this stupid topic because you see some fancy math doesn't make it concrete

....what.
Just. What.

Well... like I said: the numbers don't lie, and you can't argue with math, though some will certainly try.

especially when they account for Geri which isn't even going to be up for majority of your aoe

And Gerisgokul isn't all of your AOE. Meaning those "fancy math" and "fancy numbers" are only going to increase if you're AOEing correctly.

[Cenerae]

I know the class well it's my main and the aoe is awful this ex pack stop tying to bandwagon and lets not forget you won't hit all the targets even if you tried except with sonic thrust because it's a cone aoe but I won't argue with anyone about this stupid topic because you see some fancy math doesn't make it concrete especially when they account for Geri which isn't even going to be up for majority of your aoe

You don't need fancy math, you only need basic addition. 130 potency per target for just the basic Doom Spike, and you come to realise that you would technically gain DPS by AoEing just with Doom Spike on its own at 3 targets (it wouldn't be enough of a gain to warrant the TP consumption, of course, but still). And that's ignoring the higher potency Sonic Thrust you'll surely be weaving in at higher levels, and all your off-GCD AoE buttons.