[SPOILERS] Heavensward vs Stormblood MSQ Story

[Kyran-Varlsen]

I feel the the story of HW was better because it was able to hone in on core themes based on the cultures and conflicts present around Ishgard. When we see Ser Aymeric ride in at the end atop Hraesvelgr I truly got the sense that we have moved heaven and earth and for the better. Thordan and his Heavensward Knights, along with Nidhogg and his Horde, were good villains because they were understandable.

Stormsblood suffers out the gate because the main story is split between two areas, Ala Mhigo and Doma, and what we could see were largely dilapidated villages and war-torn ruins. Kugane was a nice local, but it's neutrality and subsequent departure from the main story (save as a base for the Scions) meant it added little to our experience in Doma. The main villain, Zenos, was a full-throttle Blood Knight who was likely the product of Sephiroth Style Genetic Testing by his father but who lacked the deep character and thought of everyone's favorite one-winged angel. Fordola was relate-able, and she even had a Bond Girl vibe as she lounged on the magitek armor before flying off after a final taunting. But I was always under the impression she would survive because of her qualities. Yotsuyu, on the other hand, had no redeeming qualities or any reason for remaining in the story after her apparent demise. That most of her qualities seem to be drawn from severe mental disorders stemming from mistreatment as a child and subsequent abuse as an adult instilled her character with a sense of thoughtless where it concerned actions. No other villain in the FF14 lineup has such a problem.

Like HW, we can't judge Stormsblood on an even scale until the planned subsequent story of the expansion comes out. But it will likely continue to suffer from the disjointed narrative connecting all of its new zones.

[Mysterysword]

I should include this as a qualifier: Stormblood was money well spent for me. I enjoyed the gameplay, the new mechanics, the new areas (especially exploring them!). And this is coming from someone who usually pays far more attention to the storyline of a Final Fantasy game, than its gameplay. Unfortunately, SB's storyline was executed poorly, which meant my experience with the game suffered.

Perhaps one of the biggest disadvantages SB had, against HW, was that HW's characters and story elements had a lot more buildup than SB did. Think about it: We met both Ysayle and Aymeric in 2.4, giving us time to get to know them, even slightly, before we got into 3.0. We also technically first met Estinien all the way back in 2.0. That gave them time to establish their characters to us. We cared about them long before we ever hit Ishgard. And so the 3.0 story was a great and natural progression of their respective characters, meaning that HW didn't have to rush in and cram all its side characters down our throats, as SB ended up trying to do.

Speaking of characters, let's also discuss our main companions for each expansion.

HW (and ARR): Alphinaud. Easily the character with the most detailed character arc I've ever seen in any FF game, if only because his story was drawn out over like 10 patches. He started out as a refreshingly active character in 2.0, making his debut just after the Scions cast got cut out of the story. He proved himself to be remarkably more resourceful and proactive than Minfilia - bringing us to kill Garuda without any help whatsoever from the Scions or their resources, then organising their rescue, before handing the limelight over to the Eorzean Alliance for Operation Archon.

In 2.1-2.5, he was the one who had to convince Minfilia to move to Revenant's Toll, and went out with us to look for her mother when she wouldn't. At this point, I kept wondering why a 16-year-old managed to be more proactive and get better results than a bunch of people several times his age. Then he went on to be the one to speak to Yugiri and offer the Domans refuge in Revenant's Toll (why couldn't Minfilia have done this?), and then dropped out of the storyline to organise the logistics of the Crystal Braves. We all know the mess that ultimately stemmed from that, leading us to 3.0.

In 3.0, we killed 2 primals. Story-wise, we had no help from the Scions (unless you want to count Cid as one of the Scions) for either of those fights, which made me realise just how amazingly ineffectual the Scions have been in their fight against the primals despite having sworn to combat the primal threat by any means. We did, however, have Alphinaud, and by this point, that's really all we need.

But I'm sick of summarising, so point is: Alphinaud got shit done. He was and still is the single most complex character in the story. It's easy to see how the friendship between him and the WoL develops. And when you're comparing this to...

SB: Lyse, well, she's just gonna fall short. But dear god, she was irritating. And my irritation was only compounded by how SB kept trying to shove her down my throat. Alphinaud and the WoL? Yeah, we're friends, and the countless cutscenes and interactions we have had, all served to flesh out that friendship. Lyse? No, stop it, game. I don't like her and I don't know how I'm supposed to trust her after it was revealed that she was lying to me about her identity for a very long time.

You know what would've made Lyse slightly more tolerable? If we had met someone, anyone, who had called her out on her lie. For example, have someone who knew Yda, the real Yda, back when she was alive. Have that someone be one of Yda's friends, and when they find out that their friend was secretly replaced by her little sister, have them be pissed. Because I would just like to see a more realistic reaction to this reveal, please? Shock, betrayal, anger? Anything like that, instead of having everyone, everyone, just accept it and write it off as no big deal.

Anyway, back to Lyse. Who happily continued the Scions' trend of getting nothing accomplished. Who managed to come off as more immature than Alphinaud, despite being close to a decade older than him. Who felt like an extremely unnecessary tagalong in the story, when she should've been the main star. Look at the Sirensong Sea, in which it was Carvallain and Alphinaud who went after us at the end of the dungeon. Lyse and Alisaie weren't the ones afraid of ghost stories, but in the end it was still Alphinaud who bothered to come get us or help us out.

When the story has me actively rewriting it in my head to see how it could be less irritating, I think it has honestly lost me. In the end, I tried to like SB's story, and I went into it with very low expectations, seeing how rushed 3.4-3.5 were, and it still felt average to me.

[MistakeNot]

One major difference is that the HW story was much more focused. It was about the ending of the Dragonsong War. Period.
The SB story (as well as the ARR story previously) is less focused and more sprawling. It is not really a single story, but rather several more-or-less connected shorter stories.

[Theodric]

You know, for all the disagreements some of us may have on this board at least many of us can bond over a mutual dislike of Lyse.

More seriously, though...the only positive things I have seen people say about her is that she is 'hot'. I've seen her criticised to a similar extent as Minfilia both here and elsewhere. I suspect she'll continue to grate on people's nerves as 4.1 appears to be thrusting her into the spotlight once more.

[Balipu]

You know, for all the disagreements some of us may have on this board at least many of us can bond over a mutual dislike of Lyse.

More seriously, though...the only positive things I have seen people say about her is that she is 'hot'. I've seen her criticised to a similar extent as Minfilia both here and elsewhere. I suspect she'll continue to grate on people's nerves as 4.1 appears to be thrusting her into the spotlight once more.

Yeah she is hot, but so is Alisaie and she is miles less irritating.

Hopefully Lyse will get some development and end up likeable at some point. After all, neither of the Leveilleur twins were all that good in 2.x Most of their development happened in 3.x which Lyse skipped. Currently she is a waste of space, but there is hope for her.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

I am not that smart and am sometimes slow to take stuff in, and even though I didn't skip any cutscenes, how did Lyse became the de-facto leader for the Ala Mhigan resistance (and the general Ala Mhigan populace by now)? It just sort of all flew over my head, the MSQ being rushed and all that. Could someone please help me recap why Lyse became the leader again? Raubahn has a claim to leading the resistance and the Ala Mhigans too by birthright, we even saw his old house there.

So what exactly happened between me finishing off HW quest, and sitting beneath a giant statue farming tomestones for Rowena? And What did Lyse have to do with all thay? Why is she even here instead of doing something to carry on Papalymo's legacy?
-Was she royalty?
-Was it because of piggy-backing on the fame of Hien?
-Was it because the East-Trading company wanted to use her as a pawn?
-Was it because seriously no one was "trusted" by anyone else yet, so she's up there "for now", like people not trusting Raubahn because he is affiliated with Ul'dah?
-Was it just to put her up there as a peaceful pretty-face (without actual political power) to "motivate the masses" with her charm? What with lady of freedom and all that?
-Was it because she is the closest we have to putting one of "our people", whom the scions and Eorzeans knew, in power?
-Was it because we needed a disposable scapegoat in case something goes wrong, and a walking inexperienced mistake is the perfect scapegoat?
-Was it because Yugiri pulled some strings and agreed to back her up in case of anything?
-Was it out of respect for Papalymo?
-Was Conrad and Yda really such a big deal that Lyse just walks along and no one even questions whether she is some clone or not?
-Was it because the few elders of the resistance (now one elder less) took a liking to her?
-Or was it seriously because there are no people capable or wanting or free to lead at all? Like some old guy who chose to stay leader in Little Ala Mhigo despite his son being in the Ala Mhigan resistance and asking him to come help? No this doesn't make sense either.
-etc.

Thanks.

[Mysterysword]

I am not that smart and am sometimes slow to take stuff in, and even though I didn't skip any cutscenes, how did Lyse became the de-facto leader for the Ala Mhigan resistance (and the general Ala Mhigan populace by now)?

1. She's not the leader of the general Ala Mhigan population, and 2. She's not just a de-facto leader, she is an official leader, because Conrad put her in charge when he bit the big one.

As for why Conrad chose her... because, supposedly, Lyse is a symbol of hope that the people will rally behind.

But really, we all know it's because the writers are trying to make her a main character, and therefore want to sell her as hard as possible without having to put in the time or effort to flesh her out, that they did with Alphinaud.

Never mind that she has no leadership experience or skills, never mind that she has displayed an inability to plan or organise any sort of operation, never mind that there are plenty of other Resistance members that are far more competent than her, never mind that even after being given command (because god knows she didn't exactly take it), she gave no commands or even planned anything out, she's clearly the right choice for Commander!

I throw a lot of flak at Minfilia for being a passive female character who needs the help of men to get anything done (and seriously, she made the Scions stay in the Waking Sands, a place where their friends got massacred, all because of some vague hope of finding her mother? MAYBE YOU'D HAVE MORE LUCK FINDING HER IF YOU ACTUALLY GOT OUT FROM BEHIND THAT DESK!) but I am still willing to concede that she was a better character and leader than Lyse. Yeah, next to Lyse, Minfilia looks competent.

[Kallera]

Not only did they squander the hope of fleshing out Yda as she was to fit the role, but immediately saddled their "new" character (and perhaps her "old" accomplices by extension) with a undesirable trait: The desire to lie and specifically keep you in the dark for years.

It's not a new trait, pushing you aside and trying to act and speak for you. But with her its a bridge too far to say she is still the person you have always known.

[Theodric]

Well, call me cynical but it certainly seems like they're setting her up to be the primary leader of the entirety of Gyr Abania. I will be pleasantly surprised if that isn't the case but so far it seems like it's heading in that direction. She will probably have a few key allies to 'support' her. The sort that will conveniently throw their full support behind her whilst being far more competent to the point where people start questioning as to why they aren't the primary leader figure instead.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

Lyse:


"I never asked for this."