4.05 crafting disappointment

[Maeka]

I'd rather it be like this than "Only Tryhards Need Apply". In fact I think they should have made Lv61-69 stuff a bit easier, because it feels like they expect you to grind up Scrip Gear from Heavensward before even starting on Stormblood stuff, but yet Heavensward Scrip Gear needs Scrip Gear to even have a hope of doing anything, but yet Lv69-70 HW stuff takes so. many. materials. to. make. that it takes hours just to make a few items to turn in...


Oh, and they are ludicrously hard to get high collectability on too.

Basically, the whole crux of the problem is during the last days of ARR, you had three groups of crafters:

Group A: The people who had endgame gear.
Group B: Those who didn't
Group C: Those who weren't Lv50 yet.

Then, in HW, they tooled everything to Group A's skill level. You can easily see this because if you're wearing non-endgame gear, it is almost impossible to craft NQs, let alone even think about getting more than 2% HQ chance on an item. Group A sailed through easy, Group B struggled and Group C? Pfft. They waited for Moogles because there was nothing else they could do.

So, now at the end of HW, we're left with this:

Group A got there way before anybody else and they were already grinding scrips as soon as they were available.
Group B, some of them might have clawed and scratched their way to get caught up before SB release
Group C, found themselves needing Scrip Gear from HW so they're still grinding away

So now that we're in SB... Group A is yet again macroing Lv70 gear... Group B, some of them are high 60s, some might even be 70s but struggling to HQ stuff, and Group C is feeling even more left behind and hopeless with no chance to catch up whatsoever 'cept for maybe at the very end of the expansion, after the last patch makes scrip gear easier to get.

The only reason HW Scrips are even possible is because of Zhloe. Without Zhloe, HW scrip gear would be impossible for me (well, ok, nigh-impossible. I suppose I could grind away for hours at 8 scrips per lumber or something when it takes 2-3 minutes to make a single lumber) and NQs from SB won't cut it (seriously, the Lv61 SB set is weaker than HW Scrip Gear, and I'm pretty sure the HW Scrip Gear is even better than the Lv63 set too!).

NQs from SB won't get you any kind of HQs whatsoever, it just isn't strong enough and without that kind of stuff, it takes forever to level because you can't HQ anything, and leves tend to take hours to complete because of the ridiculous amount of materials it takes to make anything (and of course, the people trying to catch up have to deal with poor gather rates because SB NQs only get you 60-70% success which means whiff whiff whiff whiff).

Crafting is just a mess and we seriously need a catchup, something better than 6-per-week turnins at Zhloe.

[QT_Melon]

NQs from SB won't get you any kind of HQs whatsoever, it just isn't strong enough and without that kind of stuff, it takes forever to level because you can't HQ anything, and leves tend to take hours to complete because of the ridiculous amount of materials it takes to make anything (and of course, the people trying to catch up have to deal with poor gather rates because SB NQs only get you 60-70% success which means whiff whiff whiff whiff).

I'm going to again point to https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...w_cp_crafters/

First of all, I have the carbonweave gear, MH and OH tools from scrips and on the right side I have the Hallowed chestnut accessories melded with CP (not overmeld, just 1 materia per item)
So my stats are:
Craftmanship 817 | Control 770 | CP 381 unbuffed, 424 CP with Food “Tempura Platter” (Kugane vendor)
It is very easy to get to 381CP unbuffed and cheap. Then you buy the food from Kugane vendors and you are at the magic number of 424CP! (which my macros need). You also need to be level 61 in order to get Hasty Touch II. With my macro I manage to get at least 70-75% HQ with normal quality mats and if I am lucky in procs I can get much better

Granted carbonweave is from scrips mats but actually not too horrible to get. I stated before people who were lower gear than my ironworks one got past me because they had carbonweave gear and were able to meet the stats for that post. They also did daily GC turn ins to get to 61. You don't need HQ mats to make HQ turn ins. Take a look at that post and see what you need to get. It helped many friends level up fairly quickly.

As far as Leves go:
https://goo.gl/uDCzzC

[Mirateski]

Group A: The people who had endgame gear.
Group B: Those who didn't
Group C: Those who weren't Lv50 yet.

I find this interesting actually, because I started playing in 3.1, and didn't have my crafters up to even 50 until like, 3.3 at best. I used moogles to boost the last three or four classes up to 60, but still managed to have a pentamelded ironworks set (sans tools) by the end of heavensward with actually relatively little grinding involved?

And I will ALSO add that a friend of mine was lv25 cul at the start of this week, and is now lv70 and gearing herself up to make sushi, she got herself a yellow scrip top and I made her some gear and she's melded it with Vs from the scrips she made levelling cul. She has no other crafters levelled.

There is, admittedly, a time investment involved in levelling a crafter, especially as fast as that - but the same is true of battle classes. While admittedly I was a little disappointed that my IW accessories are basically better than the hq lv70 whites unless I overmeld the whites, is that a bad thing? Going into this expac I feel like I can actually make some progress as a crafter and help my fc out with stuff they need. Maybe if you wanted to hog the top 10% of the market and roll around naked in gil the accessibility might be an issue, but I don't really get the complaints otherwise.

[AdamZ]

Then, in HW, they tooled everything to Group A's skill level.

What? At the start of HW all I had BSM, CUL, and ALC at 50 (See BLM at 50, yea you can tell I was noob). Yet I was still able to cap week one red scripts just crafting Deep-fried Okeanis in NQ vendor gear. Scrips have always been easy... (CUL was my only 60 for a bit)

After geared ALC was easy, just save the mats for one of the two books it would be, wait and watch during the week to it is starred, and it was like 8-9 crafts later, and you capped.

I will agree that going into SB fully geared out made the process so much easier... but I think you just want a "crafters level 70 jump potion"

[Cleanse]

Maeka, if you are having a tough time with some crafts, you could always make a post here in the crafting forum section requesting suggestions on a rotation tailored to your stats.

[Mirarara]

NQs from SB won't get you any kind of HQs whatsoever, it just isn't strong enough and without that kind of stuff, it takes forever to level because you can't HQ anything, and leves tend to take hours to complete because of the ridiculous amount of materials it takes to make anything (and of course, the people trying to catch up have to deal with poor gather rates because SB NQs only get you 60-70% success which means whiff whiff whiff whiff).

Crafting is just a mess and we seriously need a catchup, something better than 6-per-week turnins at Zhloe.

It's not that hard to catch up to group A in this patch. You can easily craft lv 70 HQ crafting gear using NQ npc gear at 100% rate with specialist. In fact, I got to group A from group C in HW without any help in this patch, while earning alot of side gil when I'm leveling crafter.

You can easily HQ level 60 leve item when you reach level 66 (prudent touch) too, which most of them is just some nugget or ingot that's really simple to make. I would say 60-70 for this patch is much easier than the previous.

By the way, you shouldn't be doing turn in of high level (anything above 64) because you don't really get much extra experience/script out of it.

[Solarra]

Maeka - I sympathise. I bought the game in HW and the transition from ARR to HW crafting was extremely painful.
I gave up at one point and then came back to crafting late in the expansion and have just breezed though SB in pentamelded Ironworks. You will have it tougher than me due to your gear, but your crafters are all at a similar level and your gatherers are ahead of them, so you are in a very good position for tackling SB. Once you get to 61, I think you'll find things a lot easier than they were in HW. Much less is tied to timed nodes and they are now up for 2 hours so gathering is far more relaxed.

A few tips that helped me when I was undergeared:
- Don't attempt to craft above your level (there is a hefty penalty)
- Starred recipes scale as if they are a higher level, so again there is a penalty to attempting these at level or below
- Get the best tools you can and upgrade them as often as you can. HQ is a must.
- Level your retainers and keep them geared. Send your battle-retainer out for skins and the hair/ wool needed for worsted yarn. It will save you a fortune.
- Don't forget food - HQ Baked Onion Soup is very easy to make and was enough to get me to 70
- Plan which classes to level first. I levelled BSM CRP WVR GSM and LW first (roughly together), so I could make my own gear.

If you've done all that and you are still struggling, get to to level 61 by doing lower level crafts/collectables and your Grand Company turn-ins.
-SB NQ gear is very cheap on my world. If it's the same on yours, buy some to boost your stats and then make the HQ version yourself (once you have HQ gear you should be able to make what you need from then on)
- Personally, I wouldn't spend scrips on gear in SB, except perhaps the tools (Melded Twinsilk is plenty for level 70 2*).
- Use a mix of Collectables and Leves to help you level. The ones that have 3 turn-ins give best xp. I used the same guide Qt Melon linked to above Google Docs Crafting Leve Guide (edit: Thanks for pointing out that info was already in the thread, Qt)


Back on topic -
Compared to HW, SB has been very enjoyable for me. I admit as one of the lucky ones in good gear I did find it easy, but I think it's good decision to make levelling accessible to newer players rather than trying to hold everyone back by having scrips capped and levelling materials tied to timed nodes and then favors (which I absolutely hated).
It's early days yet, so I'm expecting the challenge to come further down the line.

[QT_Melon]

Maeka - I sympathise.
A few tips that helped me when I was undergeared:

This is the same info I pretty much gave a few posts above. Its in the links I posted. x.x

[Solarra]

Oops! My bad. I did read your post but didn't check out the links

[Maeka]

Well, one thing I find Reddit confusing as all crap, I hate its interface.

Basically, I am Lv58-60 in all crafts: I have Lv60s all except for... um, LTW, CUL, and... WVR? I think.

I'm wearing Adept's with all crafts except ALC which has the stuff you can buy for Blue Scrip Tokens in Idyllshire. ALC has both MH and OH Blue Scrip, so does CRP. BSM has mainhand, but not OH yet.

I'm wearing a mix of Lv56-58 HQ jewelry though it has Craftmanship melds (back when I got that stuff, I was having trouble just NQing stuff).

I forget what my CP is, but it is a good 40 points short of most macros I see people suggesting, and the HQ food is expensive, dun think I can HQ them reliably. Doubt it, anyways.

Currently trying to get the last two 58s to 60 using Moogles, and each week, doing Zhloe trying to get the rest of the MH/OHs though it is slow as I can only get 2 per week. Maybe if I get lucky they'll ask for Orphanage Donations again, but those are hit-or-miss whether or not I can get the middle collectability tier or not. I got the full collectability just once when I got an Excellent on the same step I was about to use Byregot's on. Otherwise, best I can do is get Mid-collectability... unless of course I had one like I did a few days ago where Hasty Touch failed 4 out of 6 times even with SH2 up. *sigh* I hate FFXIV's RNG sometimes.

EDIT: About as much as I hate the ridiculous (and useless) 1000 character limit rule that is easily circumvented by an easy but annoying process of editing and C&P.

EDIT2: I had an idea of trying to find something, anything in SB (Lv61 or some-such) to just grind Alchemy with in hopes of being able to do the Orphanage Donations easier when they pop up, hoping to get 61-62 if I can find something that is reasonable to grind for XP and just collect a crapton of materials and craft away.