[Opinion] Why I'm disappointed by most changes to healers.

[NamoNanamo]

I understand. And I'll keep dpsing. But if the raid party hit the enrage because of lack of damage. You don't share the responsability (except if someone died because of you). It's the dps fault.
And an another point is : I've read Omega was built to ignore the healer dps, so If you need the healer damage, you failed as a dps. IF you need my 1500 dps whm to down o1/2 S, find another Dps.
But, if you can do more than expected, it's really cool, do it but it'll not be your responsability if they failed.

And of course, I do not refer to Arr/Hw raiding or whatever.

[Taika]

I understand. And I'll keep dpsing. But if the raid party hit the enrage because of lack of damage. You don't share the responsability (except if someone died because of you). It's the dps fault.
And an another point is : I've read Omega was built to ignore the healer dps, so If you need the healer damage, you failed as a dps.

I think you need around 21k party DPS to clear OS2 (at least our groups had a bit more than that on our first kills). Assuming your tanks do a total of 3500 (and why would they do more, it's not their job to DPS after all, right? ), that leaves 4375 DPS for each DD assuming the healers do nothing. Can you honestly say it's fair to ask each of your DDs to push that much DPS while the healers do nothing but heal, and that if the group would meet enrage in that situation it would be the DDs' fault?

[NamoNanamo]

I think you need around 21k party DPS to clear OS2 (at least our groups had a bit more than that on our first kills). Assuming your tanks do a total of 3500 (and why would they do more, it's not their job to DPS after all, right? ), that leaves 4375 DPS for each DD assuming the healers do nothing. Can you honestly say it's fair to ask each of your DDs to push that much DPS while the healers do nothing but heal, and that if the group would meet enrage in that situation it would be the DDs' fault?

Yep. Their fault. And yes, it's fair. And yes, your example is too exaggerate so it sucks ball.
And as tank, you can do more than 2k each easy.

So I don't mind everybody dps around 4k dps.

And ofc, with this content and how easy o1/2 S is, you get plenty of time to add dps.

[Ghishlain]

Yep. Their fault. And yes, it's fair.

Just to put Taika's DPS numbers into perspective.

Here are the Max damage outputs of every DPS in Susano EX. Note that the only DPS that can hit that 4,375 DPS number is SAM, RDM, MNK, and NIN.

Here are the 99th Percentile damage outputs of every DPS in Susano EX. Note that none of the DPS jobs can actually hit the requisite 4,375 DPS. SAM is just under at 4,366.1 DPS.

In short, what you're basically saying that it's fair to expect every single DPS to able to play at effectively a 95th percentile skill level to clear savage. That's a little scary, to be honest. :/ And very unreasonable to me.

[Starflake]

Yep. Their fault. And yes, it's fair.

So in other words: "I have to do half the job everyone else has to do and have 1/4th of their activity and when we do not clear this raid content where everyone has equal responsibility of contribution by using all the tools availaable to them, it's still their fault."


- But I'm not a bad healer though. Not only are you a terrible healer with that mentality. It's a bad player mentality and no player aspiring to be at least decent should listen to anything you have to say.

[Taika]

Yep. Their fault. And yes, it's fair.

Ok well, to me it's far from fair to have half (or 3/4) of your party members to work their butts off while half (or 1/4) do half the work or less, but whatever works for your team I guess.

In short, what you're basically saying that it's fair to expect every single DPS to able to play at effectively a 95th percentile skill level to clear savage. That's a little scary, to be honest. :/ And very unreasonable to me.

Yup. I'd find it funny to have someone like that in my raid team. "I demand you guys to perform 95% on FFlogs while I only do half of my own job, that's fair right?" I can only assume she has no experience at all from actually playing DD jobs in the game.

Edit:

And as tank, you can do more than 2k each easy.

But it's not their job!!!!111

[NamoNanamo]

Just to put Taika's DPS numbers into perspective.

Here are the Max damage outputs of every DPS in Susano EX. Note that the only DPS that can hit that 4,375 DPS number is SAM, RDM, MNK, and NIN.

Here are the 99th Percentile damage outputs of every DPS in Susano EX. Note that none of the DPS jobs can actually hit the requisite 4,375 DPS. SAM is just under at 4,366.1 DPS.

In short, what you're basically saying that it's fair to expect every single DPS to able to play at effectively a 95th percentile skill level to clear savage. That's a little scary, to be honest. :/ And very unreasonable to me.

Yep, but his data was wrong. And I exaggerated like him.
Even if your healer is afk, you don't need 4k3 each. It's more around 4k. (yeah, it's high) But I know I do not expect pug to play like that, that's why I'm dpsing. But Like I said, I would prefer more healing mechanic.
And I said "it's not their responsability" but I never said they shouldn't dps. It's not my main tongue so I'm too much black and white.

And I got experience too cause I've done O1/2s with my drg and I got 3800 dps +-. And I've seen mch doing more than me.
I could try to look some log to show you some dps.

But I'm not a bad healer though. Not only are you a terrible healer with that mentality. It's a bad player mentality and no player aspiring to be at least decent should listen to anything you have to say.

How am I a terrible healer, please, explain yourself

Not having your boots melded makes me cry a little inside =(

I'll meld it for O3S if needed but I don't have Enough materia VI atm

I'll meld savage gear "if-needed". Good mindset for progression raiding.

I get enough skill to do it without .-. You mad =o

[Sebazy]

How am I a terrible healer, please, explain yourself

Not having your boots melded makes me cry a little inside =(

[Fortune_Cookie]

But it's not their job!!!!111

Off-topic: this thread is a fine example of Godwin's law of ffxiv healers. As the post count grows any debate tends to the question whether it's a healer's job to dps.

[Seraphyna]

I think you need around 21k party DPS to clear OS2 (at least our groups had a bit more than that on our first kills). Assuming your tanks do a total of 3500 (and why would they do more, it's not their job to DPS after all, right? ), that leaves 4375 DPS for each DD assuming the healers do nothing. Can you honestly say it's fair to ask each of your DDs to push that much DPS while the healers do nothing but heal, and that if the group would meet enrage in that situation it would be the DDs' fault?

Required DPS per SSS for OS2:

SAM: 4265.12
NIN: 4115.64
MNK: 4115.64
DRG: 3858.01
BLM: 4335.09
SMN: 4134.72
RDM: 4087.01
BRD: 3517.69
MCH: 3543.14

So yes, each DPS *should* be bringing at least 4k on average (some people apparently need to learn what averages are). At least. If they can't kill their SSS dummies, they shouldn't be in the raid run. This is a requirement for our group. You can't kill your dummy? You better start working on your rotations until you do. We have replacements and stand-ins for that.

It is the DPS' fault if they are not bringing at least the minimum required dps for their job. If you hit enrage, it's either due to too many deaths or dps is too low. Dps too low IS the DPS' fault if they are not hitting their requirements for fights.