Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

[YianKutku]

Not entirely unjustified, either - but the 'savages' term likely stems from bitterness at how poorly Garleans were treated before Garlemald came to be a successful Empire.

Eorzeans had very little to do with that. Garlemald's early woes came from their neighbours in Ilsabard. Eorzea is in Aldenard. (Well, technically Aldenard is in Eorzea, since Eorzea includes Vylbrand.) If your meaning is that Garleans call everyone "savages" because of their treatment from one region, thus making them lash out indiscriminately even against those who had nothing to do with the earlier sins... that doesn't paint the Garleans in any sort of sympathetic light either.

It's much more easily explained as old-fashioned prejudice, with nothing more than a belief in one's own cultural or racial superiority over everyone else's. It's pretty much the same as how many Sharlayans consider Eorzeans to be "barbarians". (To be fair, Eorzea has form in this, thanks to Belah'dia's civil war involving Sharlayan aetherytes.)

[VargasVermillion]

Speaking of, I'm actually really interested in what garlemalds neighbors were like before they got annexed, didn't the lorebook state ilsabard as a harsh continent filled with various warlords and such before the garleans dominated the others?

[Alleo]

@ Cilia: Thanks for the post you can put my thoughts in way better words. I am still seeing lots of similarities, especially in 4.0 but it seems to make people uncomfortable so I will stop with that. But looking at the stuff Garlemald itself did in 4.0 I just cant see any good thing at all. Having technology and stuff like that is something I would see more neutral. (Technology is not good or bad itself, it depends completely on the situation its used) It might be good for Garlemald itself but it brings a lot of terror to Eorzea..if they went and traded with Eorzea then I would see it more positive.

Every time someone mentions how bad Garlemald had it in the past..I will always just shake my head a bit (nothing personal). Someone already pointed out that they survived quite a bit without technology so they were not near extinction. Also as we know right now, Eorzea had nothing to do with this. Garlemald came from a whole other continent..

Its just that Garleans see themselves as a better race..the term savages shows this quite well. Its a term that makes the other lower than them. They use them for the beast tribes but also for the people of Eorzea. Regula still calling us that just shows that we are still bellow him. I wished they showed more scenes about him because his sacrifice really came out of nowhere. Also I am quite sure if the problem of Zurvan would have been solved if he killed us all, he would have done that. He is pragmatic in his way but being that does not necessary means something good.

In the end it seems that everyone is a bit biased in this discussion. But I still find it curious that the only good deeds from Garlemald come from soldiers. So I hope that in the future we will see more good things from the common people and maybe somewhere we see the government change (like with Isghard) and become a better government that will not try to mass murder whole races to solve the problem but try it differently. So much good would come out of Eorzea and Garlemald exchanging their knowledge in a nice matter..nothing good will come out of world conquering.

@Kallera: I am quite sure that there are nasty beast man out there..exactly that there are nasty Lalas, Au Ra and other people out there. But Garlemald does not care for that. They want to kill all beast man, no matter how good or bad they are.

[VargasVermillion]

People underestimate how harsh this world would be. Yes the garleans have little right to do what they do from a moral ground, but if we're talking purely on logic then yes they actually do because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead. The only reason they have run afoul with the rest of the world is because they ultimately won and were the ones who got there first. These political scenarios often reflect the real world and this is how it always has been, one nation will take advantage of another if the opportunity arises and that includes the modern era.

[YianKutku]

Speaking of, I'm actually really interested in what garlemalds neighbors were like before they got annexed, didn't the lorebook state ilsabard as a harsh continent filled with various warlords and such before the garleans dominated the others?

Northern Ilsabard is a harsh place filled with warlords and raider bands. The Garleans originally came from southern Ilsabard, which is temperate and apparently not a bad place to live. Still, seeing as they got driven to northern Ilsabard in the first place, things were obviously not perfect.

Yes the garleans have little right to do what they do from a moral ground, but if we're talking purely on logic then yes they actually do because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead.

But they're not on the same continent. Ala Mhigo is on Aldenard, and Doma and the Xaela tribes are on Othard. Asking about the hypothetical where all of these are on the same continent is irrelevant, because they're not, and Garlemald conquered them anyway.

The only other known nation in Hydaelyn's history which spanned multiple continents were the Allagans, who were generally not moral paragons either. Even the War of the Magi restricted itself to Eorzea.

[Alleo]

...because say they were living on the same continent as the xeala tribes, ala mhigo or even Doma. If they encountered the garleans before they gained any advantage they would probably have taken advantage of the situation and conquered them instead

The Garleans are coming from a whole different continent. They had nothing to do with Doma, Ala Mhigo or other countries we know of. So I am not sure where the information is coming from, that they are from the same place? Also in modern era it would be bad if someone tries to conquer a free state. That surely would create another war. (And war is always bad)

[Theodric]

War is rarely black or white. There's usually a reason for it - be it politically charged, vengeance or the acquisition of resources and territory. Or a misguided attempt to bring 'freedom' and 'justice' to foreign nations. In some cases it's merely presented as righteous whilst a large driving point in actuality is profit.

That doesn't mean that war is the ideal solution, mind you - but it's an unfortunate part of both life and history. By our very nature humans can be kind and compassionate but they can also be cruel and selfish. We'll never see a united world with no conflict unless we literally begin wiping people's minds clean and adjusting their viewpoint to fit the supposed 'correct' approach to life. Which brings all manner of dubious implications in itself, of course.

[VargasVermillion]

The Garleans are coming from a whole different continent. They had nothing to do with Doma, Ala Mhigo or other countries we know of. So I am not sure where the information is coming from, that they are from the same place? Also in modern era it would be bad if someone tries to conquer a free state. That surely would create another war. (And war is always bad)

My point is that many of our allies would of done the same thing if the opportunity came. If a nation encounters a weaker nation they'll do what they can do get as much from that as possible. Hydaelyn isn't a place where you can apply a modern day moral compass.

[Cilia]

My point is that many of our allies would of done the same thing if the opportunity came. If a nation encounters a weaker nation they'll do what they can do get as much from that as possible. Hydaelyn isn't a place where you can apply a modern day moral compass.

By that logic Eorzea should have been unified under a single banner long ago.

The game also runs on a largely modern sense of morality, far as I can tell.

[Matriqona]

Certainly, the sheer potential of getting magitek car as a mount is far too good to pass by.