Botters has RUINED PvP :(

[Driavna]

Outside removing any reward from losing and ban bots there is nothing they can do.

[Canadane]

Outside removing any reward from losing and ban bots there is nothing they can do.

I've been asking for no rewards on a loss for years now...

[Ayerinn]

I've been asking for no rewards on a loss for years now...

lol...that sounds like a great idea if you want PvP removed from the game due to 99.9% of the player base ignoring it completely...

[Alleo]

lol...that sounds like a great idea if you want PvP removed from the game due to 99.9% of the player base ignoring it completely...

Exactly. There is a reason why they put all the mounts, minions and other rewards behind PVP. People need an incentive to play it. PVP can be really frustrating, especially Frontline. Getting at least something out of it, even if you lose, makes it a bit better. If only winners will get something you will have the following situation: Big toxicity in chat because if you dont win, you just wasted your time. This will probably scare away any new people and probably lots of older ones. (There is a reason why we dont have chat in Feast anymore..) Also with three teams, even if you have a good team, there is still a quite big chance to lose. So you will punish the majority of the PVP players. This in turn makes the game mode utterly useless for most people.

If only a really small amount of people play this mode then SE might not even make something new for it. Thus in the end its even a loss for the hardcore pvp players. Having bots in this mode but at the same time more players playing it, might be better for SE than barely anyone playing it. Because it needs to be worth all the time and budget that is used for this.

[Shut]

If only a really small amount of people play this mode then SE might not even make something new for it. Thus in the end its even a loss for the hardcore pvp players. Having bots in this mode but at the same time more players playing it, might be better for SE than barely anyone playing it. Because it needs to be worth all the time and budget that is used for this.

Consideration for PvP in a nutshell. "Bah, that's just PvP, doesn't matter much right? Those peasans should be glad that SE throw a bone to them from time to time"
Boting is not a necessary evil, it's a cancer and a mmo killer. Crafters hate them for a good reason.


This particulary astonishing how people defend a broken rewarding system just because "muh pvp", while "horror stories from duty finder" posts get tons of reply, along with all the critics on jump potion players and PotD lvl'd players. More than ever, pvp doesn't teach you how to play your job.

If SE wants to bring PvE rewards in pve, idc because that doesn't change anything for me. But 1st, only in a system that actually reward people for their efforts (like it has already been said plenty of time, with healing/dmg done), and 2nd, it needs to bring rewards that are valuable in PvP, but both of those points need a deep rework, and that can take time. Even the most casual pvper has his wolf marks capped, which is only for glamour.

[TankHunter678]

I kinda wish they would try this:

Standardize the xp regardless of win or loss. Set personal performance level check points and attach a rating (Bronze/Silver/Gold) to those check points. The more high ratings you have the bigger an xp bonus you get at the end for yourself. That way trying gets you more xp then the guy who decided to AFK, but you wont be punished if your team loses because of circumstances beyond your control.

[Alleo]

Consideration for PvP in a nutshell. "Bah, that's just PvP, doesn't matter much right? Those peasans should be glad that SE throw a bone to them from time to time"
Boting is not a necessary evil, it's a cancer and a mmo killer. Crafters hate them for a good reason.

Funny how you read my post. No I am not defending bots itself, I am just saying that at the end content must be worth it for SE. They need time and money to create a new map for PVP, which is the reason why they try to put so many incentives behind it. This is also the reason why they banned the chat in feast, made it possible to go into it with a lvl30 job, put EXP behind it and made PVP easier. This was not done for the already playing hardcore PVP players, no this was done to have more people try it out and play it. Because people said that they wont play it for certain reasons. If SE did not care how many people would play it they would not have tried so many things to make it more popular. At the same time if they make the gained EXP way to low this would mean that barely anyone would try it out because its not worth it. And they simply can not make events like the Garo one all the time. Because that would mean that they put even more time and money behind PVP which would mean that it needs to be even more successful to make it worth it. Making it a good opportunity to level up your characters is one way to make a great incentive without putting much work into it. It just had the unfortunate effect that this also got the attention of AFK players and bots. So either SE sees this situation as the lesser evil because it would mean that people still would play PVP thus they got what they wanted or it means that they have to create a solution for this. But only giving something for the winning team is not a solution they probably want..because this would go against their aim to make PVP more popular. (I would love to be able to punish those AFKlers and botters way more easily.)

[KisaiTenshi]

It just had the unfortunate effect that this also got the attention of AFK players and bots. So either SE sees this situation as the lesser evil because it would mean that people still would play PVP thus they got what they wanted or it means that they have to create a solution for this. But only giving something for the winning team is not a solution they probably want..because this would go against their aim to make PVP more popular. (I would love to be able to punish those AFKlers and botters way more easily.)

This is because the design of the map doesn't encourage active play. I've played it a few times, and initially I was like "okay this is fun" but then I kept seeing three people bot on my team and kinda went... nope. I'll do it once for Khloe's book when it comes up, but it's absolutely not fun to play with or against bots.

Here's how I'd fix it, note that I'm not fond of PvP in general, but this feels like it would intentionally complicate things so that AFK and bot play would be detrimental without punishing PvP play itself.

a) Don't have safe zones. Give the player 5-20 seconds of being unable to be damaged after respawning them at the last claimed tower. If no tower claimed, drop them somewhere randomly and unpredictably.

b) Time spent dead counts against you. If more than 10% of the time is spent ko'd or inactive, no reward.

c) Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

d) Put more entrophy into the map design. If there was ever a good business case for a procedurally generated landscape in FFXIV, this is it. This makes it hard or impossible for bots to be able to navigate because they can not use the existing game maps to predict where things will be.

[Shut]

snip

I may have been a bit blunt indeed, but I fail to see how this rewarding system can bring any incentive for doing pvp. This system is flawed and actually open a window for bad behaviors such as botting. But this is nothing new, remember feast season 1? You had tons of people throwing match/afking just to get tomes quickly until GM get active, which last until the end of s1. The problem with adding PvE reward in PvP is that it need a better system that count actual participation of players. Until then, those rewards must be counted as extra, not an actual way of farming them.


On long term, the current system doesn't work. 1st because I don't think any new player would get any incentive doing more pvp if their first impression of it is the souvenir of afkers/botters. I also remember lot of comments, either here or on reddit, or on novice network/linkshells, during garo event, that were more like: "Finally, I got my mount/titles, I'm done with this", more than "Hey, I may give a try to pvp in the future". Tbh, that's not my problem if they don't enjoy it, however, this is a kind of case of putting pve reward in pvp fails to create incentive for pvp, because the only reason to do it become for pve rewarding. Another system was "supposed" to be interesting on itself (but was actually stupidly redundant) and gives good reward was also added during heavensward, that was PotD, and it turned quickly into a xp farm only. And that's something I don't want to see with PvP.

Remove mounts, remove sprint entirely. Create a PvP specific movement speed so that all players move at the same speed. Remove fall damage.

They already put sprint into a pvp action. And that's shit. And do not remove fall damage, just pay attention.

[Rufalus]

Boting is not a necessary evil, it's a cancer and a mmo killer. Crafters hate them for a good reason..

I enjoy doing fates but it's getting annoying now on Ragnarok the new zones already have clusters of bots farming the fates - all the characters move same time and stand together on same position, all have same gear and same default yellow chocobo with the same barding and using smn with titan egi out, clone army.