This expansion looks very unfair for the DPS classes in general.

[Oscura]

This entire thread is wasted energy. I main MONK, MCH, and WAR, and they all seem fine to me. You guys are living in a bubble and not considering the synergy between all of the jobs in a group setting. Take a deep breath, go spend some quality time with different group configs, and then shut up.

So because your subjective experience dictates they are fine, other people must be living in a bubble?

There has never been a more pretentious post I've seen on this forum.

[Georashi]

This entire thread is wasted energy. I main MONK, MCH, and WAR, and they all seem fine to me. You guys are living in a bubble and not considering the synergy between all of the jobs in a group setting. Take a deep breath, go spend some quality time with different group configs, and then shut up.

Pray tell, what synergy does a machinist bring to a group? The skills we'd use to support our parties are gone now, so all that's left is raw DPS. And that is rather lacking, at the moment.

[HyoMinPark]

They purposely overbuffed RDM and SAM.
Yoshi said it himself. So I'm looking more at everything but those two jobs.
Looking at it like that, DPS comes off as the most balanced, while both healers are completely inferior to AST and have very thin identities thanks to it.

I wouldn't say both healers are entirely inferior compared to AST. SCH is completely garbage atm from what I've heard, but WHM has become the king when it comes to MP management and DPS. AST's MP management has suffered a bit because Lucid Dreaming is not as powerful and has a longer CD than Luminiferous Aether did. Also doesn't last as long either. AST DPS has also suffered a bit as well.

Tanks aren't very balanced right now though. PLD outshines both WAR and DRK. DRK is better-ish at 70 from what I've heard, but PLD is still the god of tanks right now.

The only DPS that isn't particularly balanced compared to the rest is MCH. They need to do something about it, tbh. I particularly enjoy both SAM and RDM, but I do get frustrated trying to build up extra Kenki by hitting the rear/flank positionals on Gekko/Kasha, and the tanks move the mobs. ;-;

[Greedalox]

This entire thread is wasted energy. I main MONK, MCH, and WAR, and they all seem fine to me. You guys are living in a bubble and not considering the synergy between all of the jobs in a group setting. Take a deep breath, go spend some quality time with different group configs, and then shut up.

Your MNK DPS is low and your groups "different group configs" damages are low too if your MCH's DPS is looking anywhere close to appealing.
As a MCH main and stan- we're probably in the weakest position a class has ever been in this game in comparison to the rest of its role. There's never been a last place this far behind- even taking into account scaling.

[Mikhaill]

And what class isnt now days? Hell what class was EVER really "hard"?

BLM because of AoE dance off with them being sitting ducks like 99% of the time.
Why do you think they give us the Ley Lines buffs? They knew it.
People think because X class has easy rotations they think it's easy, nope.

MCH is bad too. The crap you have to do to maximize damage was ridiculous and it's still low.
High skill floor, low rewards. Wasn't they like that in 3.0? I'm assuming they're worse now?

If you think DRG is imbalanced to play unfairly youve never played NIN or MNK. DRG is probably the easiest class to manage out of the three.

[GunZLegend]

This entire thread is wasted energy. I main MONK, MCH, and WAR, and they all seem fine to me. You guys are living in a bubble and not considering the synergy between all of the jobs in a group setting. Take a deep breath, go spend some quality time with different group configs, and then shut up.

You don't have a single class at 70 or any experience with the savage raids in the previous expansion and want to talk as if you did anything to where composition really mattered? You haven't even begin to delve into the classes, or put any actual "Quality time" in. DPS players are looking at these changes and are being told either to deal with their newfound mediocrity, or simply switch classes if they want efficiency in an actual raid setting. MCH are now the worst DPS in the game. MNK is now outshined completely by SAM. DRG, previously the melee DPS with the highest burst damage, is also shivering in the corner in the face of SAM's high burst.

Get out.

[Kaisinel]

What exactly is so difficult about DRG?

[AkashiXI]

Most utility that's not Astro got slightly nerfed, and I'd argue the new Bard is more versatile (the HP troubadour buff is actually quite significant) in its utility.
"No longer being a must pick" is good. No job should be a "must pick". That said, BRD and NIN are still the most picked dps jobs by a mile. It is effectively a "must pick".

I haven't studied the new bard yet (casters first), but I'm sure it's actually quite hard. Bard has always been a rng heavy job (it was in 3.X). That said, it's still in almost every team, vastly overshadows its other counterpart (MCH) and is overall one of the current best dps jobs.

I said that I agreed that Bard should have never been a must pick, but now it's not even a great pick. I want to clarify that again, as I revel in the idea that all jobs are equally as viable and it purely becomes a "what works best with each other" meta where synergy is key.

Most utility that's not Astro got slightly nerfed, and I'd argue the new Bard is more versatile (the HP troubadour buff is actually quite significant) in its utility.

Not sure where you're going with this, can you tell me which utility was nerfed for jobs that aren't MCH/BRD? Dragoon got Dragon Sight, Monk Brotherhood, Red Mage Embolden and Raise, and not to mention all the cross skills that are available (Manashift, Erase, Goad, etc). You no longer need Troubadour (the move you mentioned that gives everyone HP) because there are jobs that can do the same thing, and situationally better. The whole "Bard and Machinist are support," has become lesser of a factor now... and so now we have what, mobility? Black Mage, Summoner, and Red Mage have very good movement options.

And finally, just slight nitpicking

Bard has always been a rng heavy job (it was in 3.X).

Bard wasn't RNG heavy in 3.0, it only had RoD/Bloodletter procs, which were easily manageable after they fixed the server timing issue. The huge problem with bowmage was that they bled damage because of how many oGCDs they managed (that were tacked on due to 3.0's system change). Now we lack oGCDs, but instead have moments where RNG will make multiple actions proc without the time to use them. It's a convoluted mess.

[Jim_Berry]

Let's just go over some of the DPS classes again...

Melee:

DRG: Complicated as hell, an utter mess of long animation OGCDs, a bunch of priorities, a timer that can fall off, positionals that range from 100-180 and 200-290 if missed (and you'll miss them given the ridiculous amount of times bosses spin this time around). Jumps still locking you. A complete nightmare of a class.
Numbers? On the very bottom.

Meanwhile, you have SAM, which has no timers, positionals barely punish you, barely OGCDs and a pretty noob friendly rotation.
Numbers? Ludicrously high.

Does DRG have access to "True North"?

[Galvuu]

snip

Bloodletter procs were a pretty big deal, and you also had the Straight Shot procs- which could alter how you use ogcds/weave stuff (like weaving Empyreal into your proc and stuff like that). I actually changed what I did based on them every 10 seconds or so.

DRG's piercing debuff got nerfed hard. In fact, that's why you don't see Dragoon as much and why MCH+BRD disappeared; as far as that comp is concerned, the loss of the 5% on the piercing debuff is roughly a 500+ raid dps loss (quite substantial).
Further, role utility isn't too relevant here because everyone has access to it within the role.
If you're deciding for job A in detriment to job B, you want to see what unique features they bring. So when you compare MCH to BRD, role actions are a non-factor. Same deal with the two casters VS RDM. Why wouldn't you bring RDM or BRD over their counterparts? Hence why BRD and RDM dominance comes into question.

Also, come on- if anything, BLM got worse as far as movement is concerned. The F4x3>F>F4x3 rotation is super tight, especially after the (very harsh) spellspeed nerf. What did we get, Triple? You either get one more cd for movement each minute and a half and lose a hefty chunk of dps for it, or you use Triple as a dps gain and are left with the old Swiftcast. Even Sharpcast isn't a commodity now unless you want to gamble with mana ticks.