What is this new anti dps healer attitude?

[NinefoldRakshasa]

Lolwut? My Insta healer queues tell me that im the vip.

Trust me, it take a lot less time to replace a healer than a tank right now.

[Faliandra]

Trust me, it take a lot less time to replace a healer than a tank right now.

Thats your experience. Not mine.

[Lildragora]

Healers shouldn't be required to dps, but it certainly was a UNIQUE NOVELTY that Tanks and healers of sufficient skill could contribute to DPS in a meaningful way. Its the main reason I enjoyed playing a healer in this game so much vs others. The anti DPS attitude is reasonable in some cases but I've seen more healers skillfully stance dance and speed up runs than I have seen healers sit around with a book/astroglobe/staff up their behind. I remember when I was just starting to get down cleric stance I just straight up told the party I was trying to get better and would stop if anything started to become problematic. Most groups encouraged my behavior in this way and rarely yelled at me for it.

[Lildragora]

If people communicated properly I feel like I wouldn't be loosing one of the most fun aspects of my role in damage contribution up time while maintaining full party health. People who feel Healers and tank should only do their role, stop. People who think they should be obligated to dps, stop. It should be a choice and it should be a meaningful choice to provide that extra contribution to the party. The fights shouldn't be designed around additional healer / tank dps but it should be an option for skilled groups to progress faster or to push the limit. The problem I see with the stance dancing gone from healers and damage reduction on tanks is a community problem.

[Lildragora]

The problem is that for those of us versed enough in our job to do it now have less to do and the playstyle feels less engaging, at least from a SCH perspective (our job is BASED on a DPS you know). The problem is also people who think the roles should be niche and fit exactly into a bubble. The healing feels like it always did albeit with less impact. Im fine with tanks taking more damage, im fine with higher raid damage, I am a healer after all. But please dont take away the playstyle, its really the only reason I play a healer on this game. Skilled players should still have meaningful dps contribution which would only be made more challenging from the increase in damage tanks seem to be taking while also providing means that people cant really complain about if the healer only heals due to the increased damage. When I say meaningful DPS I mean comparable to a average non raid low end dps. Nothing too big but with it you could save a few minutes in a run.

[Bonbalon_Burcaso]

Personally, I find that as long as people aren't dying, I don't care if the healer DPSes or not. I don't overpull and I use my CDs, as well as toss heals on myself because my job is holding hate and mitigating damage.

That said, I have seen healers, as far down the road as Doma Castle, who blow all their MP aoeing and cause either a wipe or near wipe needlessly. I have no problems with healers who toss out damage, but your main job is keeping people alive. If you wanna blow stuff up and toss the occasional heal, play RDM.

[Lildragora]

Maybe the previous point is off but it really doesn't feel meaningful or impactful when I deal damage anymore and that is my main concern.

/rantover

[BigRed5392]

first and for most a drk mp is more important then a healers dps. W/o mp drks can't tank, they need darkside up to use dark arts, they need to build blood gage and bloodprice helps.

though tbh that is no longer an issue due to Delirium, and darkside no longer ticking away mp. My g/f nor myself has had mp issues with the changes.

Neither my g/f and I have no issue with a healer who deals damage, we do have issues with healers who drain their mp. Tanks outside of pld do not have a large amount of buffs to pool from.

healers should heal first then dps, i've seen healer let me or my g/f drop to 20% hp before curing, and yes my g/f does use her cd and well.

[BigRed5392]

If people communicated properly I feel like I wouldn't be loosing one of the most fun aspects of my role in damage contribution up time while maintaining full party health. People who feel Healers and tank should only do their role, stop. People who think they should be obligated to dps, stop. It should be a choice and it should be a meaningful choice to provide that extra contribution to the party. The fights shouldn't be designed around additional healer / tank dps but it should be an option for skilled groups to progress faster or to push the limit. The problem I see with the stance dancing gone from healers and damage reduction on tanks is a community problem.

no fight is designed with healer dps in mind yoshida said this 4 times. emphasizing it highly.

[HyoMinPark]

Let me just correct you on this. My SO tanks. He is a GREAT tank. I don't just say that because he is my SO. When he isn't so great or slacking, I tell him so. I'VE noticed how hard he is getting hit. I asked him if he was slacking. He wasn't.

They ARE using their CD's. They ARE mitigating. They ARE getting hit like trucks.

Except a lot of DF tanks seem to pop Rampart, and then call it a day. A lot of the tanks I've encountered want to go balls to the wall, pull everything, and then think that a 20% mitigation is going to keep them alive when the only AOE that seems to be going out is that of my Gravity spam (lots of melee DPS in the groups I've been in, and I don't know why they continue to be allergic to AOE skills). The icing on the cake is that they're still gearing up/leveling, or using an outdated/outleveled weapon, and cannot hold aggro to save their life. I have ran all of my SB dungeons exclusively without a tank that I personally knew, and at the most with just one other person I'm friends with, so they're always 50% or more randoms. The tanks I've met like this are very common.

Speaking from my AST perspective, if I have to spam Benefic II on you as a tank and pray to RNGesus for Boles, you should probably learn some proper CD management (yes, I watch my tanks as they pull, and watch to see which CDs they use), or stop trying to bite off more than you can chew. Had a tank in the Level 65 Dungeon a couple days ago when I hit 65 on AST decide to chain pull three packs of mobs, half of which he lost to the RDM in the group (who died), and then said mobs came to chew on me (and then I died). What did the tank do after we all reset? The very same thing. No one died this time, but I watched them closely, and they barely used ANY cooldowns (and I didn't get to so much as DoT the mobs because their health was bouncing up and down like a bouncy ball). Do tanks like this not learn from their previous deaths on pulls like this? (Speaking for myself, my AST was relatively geared for her level--which was 65--still using her Anima Lux Relic, because it's still relevant at 65, so I really don't think it was a question of my gear. When I do get a tank that uses their cooldowns well, even on large pulls in these leveling dungeons, I can still juggle healing and DPS without anyone dying or even coming close to dying.)

Speaking from my BRD perspective, if you chain pull, expect me to AOE. I expect you to properly rotate between all those mobs you decided to pull (and use your AOE skills, which, PLDs, YOU HAVE ONE NOW SO USE IT PLEASE) to hold aggro. I should not be ripping hate from you during my Mage's+Rain of Death/Army's+Quick Nock AOE spam. I should not be taking damage because you cannot hold hate (which is just more stress on the healers, because now they have to stop contributing to DPS, or healing you, to heal me or the other DPS that ended up with aggro).

And, finally, speaking to the other DPS: if the tank chain pulls, please help out with AOE damage by using your AOE skills. All DPS have AOE skills, and after a certain point, they become a higher DPS gain than your single target combos. All DPS also have resource management skills, so use them in combination with your AOE spam to offset any resource drain you may experience (Invigorate/Lucid Dreaming are your friends; use them). The longer things take to die, the more strain it puts on both the tank (from running out of CDs) and the healer (from having to spam heal the tank who now has no CDs left). Running the Level 70 dungeons for verity, I see so many of my co-DPS (usually always melee or a BLM that only wants to Fire IV) not touching a single AOE skill, leaving me to be the only one AOEing if the healer is unable (or unwilling) to contribute. That puts a lot of strain on me, because even though I'm a BRD and have Tactician/Invigorate, both of them have cooldowns of their own. My TP is not endless (and, honestly, BRD AOE got nerfed when they locked our River of Blood trait behind Mage's Ballad).

YOU may want to get used to the stance SE is taking; Healers are HEALERS, not DPS. Healers DPS'ing during runs is basically over. Throwing something out, tank's almost dead. That's YOUR fault. People die while you are DPS'ing, your fault.

SE is hardlining the roles.

This is false. It's not "over"; if it was, SE could have easily removed all offensive spells from healers outside of solo instances where healers would HAVE to DPS to complete them (similar to how they locked Cleric Stance out of PvP). If SE didn't want healers to DPS under any circumstance, I'm sure they would find a way to keep offensive spells out of duties. But they haven't, and the skills are there. If you have the ability to balance healing and DPS, why not use them? Why not help out your party? And finding that balance is not that hard to do, so I really wish more healers would try to find it.

If SE wants healers to be "pure healers" and nothing more, then increase the amount of outgoing damage in all content. Even in the leveling dungeons, if you have a skilled tank that knows how to properly rotate their cooldowns, and skilled DPS who know how and when to AOE, and when to start single-targeting mobs, there isn't enough outgoing damage to demand 100% healing uptime. There's always going to be that downtime, and what are the healers supposed to do then? I prefer to be DPSing. If SE took away my offensive spells, I would honestly stop rolling healer jobs. I dislike just standing there waiting for someone to start taking damage.

Good healers DPS and heal. Bad healers DPS and let people die. I have seen both types. But the bad healers that let party members die because they're too busy DPSing shouldn't cloud your judgment of those of us who CAN balance the two. I have always juggled healing and DPSing, and rarely do I let people die. On the off-chance that I have messed up and someone ended up dead, I call myself out on it, and apologize. I don't get harassed over doing that, either.

HOWEVER, if a person dies due to completely avoidable damage, that is not the fault of the healer, but of that individual. Don't stand in the orange, and dodge the bad things. I don't care about your DPS or your parses. You can't DPS if you're dead, so dodge the avoidable stuff. It's as simple as that. Because if you die on me three times to the same avoidable crap, I stop wasting my MP to raise/heal you.



I also see a lot of people mentioning how these leveling dungeons hit harder. Yes, they do, but if I recall, the HW leveling dungeons were very similar leveling up. Some of the mobs in Dusk Vigil hit stupidly hard compared to the level 50 dungeons. Some of the mobs in The Aery hit stupidly hard, and then we have The Vault (don't need to say much else there). I don't really think this is that new of a thing.

But those of you who say that tanks were spoiled at the end of HW are also right--we aren't at the point where we're overgeared and can zerg everything anymore. We're all leveling again, and we all need to adjust. That goes for everyone: tanks, healers, and DPS.