UPDATE: To everyone who wrote their name for my WHM petition.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Actually:

The purpose of this forum is for players to hold discussions on Healer roles and its tactics with other players.

Posting content that does not follow the theme of the category or thread.

A petition is neither a discussion nor the purpose of the forum. If they really did intend to mute the community for throwing a tantrum, they would have deleted all the "feedback" instead. Rather than that, they enforced:

Posting a number of posts with the same content.

Source: http://support.eu.square-enix.com/ru...la=2&tag=forum

[Seraphyna]

That's a very *American* mentality to throw a tantrum and threaten to pull out if you don't get your way. You don't see that kind of childish behavior over on the JP side of the forum, where they're actually very civilized and constructive, mature even.

It's called supply and demand. What SE is supplying isn't up to the demands of the consumer. Why in the world would we buy it? What you see as a temper tantrum, I see as basic economics. And I've taken my money and time elsewhere (two things are precious and limited), away from SE. Why would I dare waste those on something that doesn't meet my needs?

[Gemina]

SE isn't my or your boss, they're attempting to sell you a product. Those are two extraordinarily different relationships. Also if your advice involves telling your boss to ignore your customers it's no wonder he's telling you to get out.

It's not about him being my boss. It's about running a business. Both my place of work and SE are selling a product. They are in fact no different at all. And where do you get telling my boss to ignore customers? What I'm telling YOU is if I approach my boss with a problem without a solution, especially about a product that hasn't been field tested yet, he is going to point his finger at the door.

Just because you're a paying customer doesn't entitle you to have your rants, frustrations, and complaints listened to, and I can assure you their ears are closed until the expansion is released. Any adjustments they make from now until then will be minor tweaks they feel need to be corrected.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Just because you're a paying customer doesn't entitle you to have your rants, frustrations, and complaints listened to, and I can assure you their ears are closed until the expansion is released. Any adjustments they make from now until then will be minor tweaks they feel need to be corrected.

I'll have to correct you here for a bit. They are, in fact, entitled to their rants and tantrums. But that doesn't mean Square-Enix is entitled to listen to (for now) baseless complaints

[Claire_Pendragon]

It's against the rules to criticize anything SE does. (I forget the exact phrasing in the ToS for this, or if it was just a GM who said it in a thread before.)

At best, you might be able to get away with it, if it sounds less like a personal attack, with colorful sounding language, (and I dont simply mean cursing) but just listing off some numbers, and leaving it more vague on your opinion, like, hmm MAYBE this has an issue.

But, I've seen some complaints that went by just fine, so who knows.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I like how in response to a makeshift petition to get us some attention from the devs, the smacked it all in one containment board so no one could see it.

This feels like less of an attempt to help us and more of an attempt to shut us up.

[CyrilLucifer]

That's a very *American* mentality to throw a tantrum and threaten to pull out if you don't get your way. You don't see that kind of childish behavior over on the JP side of the forum, where they're actually very civilized and constructive, mature even.

But if you aren't interested in something, why should you pay for it?

It's reasonable and "mature," as you put it, to "pull out" if you don't like a decision. SE is a business and if a customer isn't interested in what they provide, they use their money elsewhere.

This is not a tantrum.

I like how in response to a makeshift petition to get us some attention from the devs, the smacked it all in one containment board so no one could see it.

This feels like less of an attempt to help us and more of an attempt to shut us up.

Kind of agree, to be honest.

[RopeDrink]

Petitions by themselves aren't very constructive and don't really provide anything (stand-alone) when compared to a hearty discussion or contained feedback (constructive), which is the entire point of a 'discussion' board. People shouldn't be surprised when petitions (which are basically always going to be perceived as pseudo-demand threads where people waddle in and up their post count with a pointless 'signed' comment) gets closed during a time when everyone and their mother is already posting salty whinge-infested threads about something that hasn't been released yet en mass.

Throwing a tantrum about it won't win you any friends or any more attention from SE than you already got (thread lock/merge with the mega-thread like all the other useless threads).

[Kaeoni]

But if you aren't interested in something, why should you pay for it?

It's reasonable and "mature," as you put it, to "pull out" if you don't like a decision. SE is a business and if a customer isn't interested in what they provide, they use their money elsewhere.

This is not a tantrum.

I agree, you should never pay for something you don't believe in, agree with or enjoy.

That being said there is a distinct difference between voicing your concerns in a rational thought provoking manner, and the "if you don't do as I say I quit (inserts service ect)".
If you aren't willing to admit there is an overabundance of negativity... no, unconstructive negativity surrounding this very topic you're conveniently ignoring some of largest facets where players for this game come together to talk about stuff.

So when a person talks about "American" mentality vs "Japanese" mentality You need to understand that both societies are very different from one another and since that is the case, deal with problems almost invariably different as well.
No one's arguing about how basic economics works. That type of thing transcends language barriers. But if you want to sit there and say a petition where you simply sign your name is constructive in any way shape or form then you'd have to be living under a damn tectonic plate to see what's happening right now. EVERYONE within the community is aware of what's going on and a petition isn't going to do ANYTHING. Especially when the OP of said thread said "This isn't a discussion piece, just sign if you want Whm changed" (something very similar to this) Yeah, constructive thought at it's finest.

Not everyone is Crybabying it. No one's saying that, since generalizations are always wrong. But you can't say they don't exist, (and in higher quantities than usual right now) out of convenience for the sake of an argument.

Now you have another person where in the title is "I just cancelled my pre-order". Are we going to pretend this person wasn't seeking attention? Of course they were, they were directly seeking that Shock aspect. The quitting the game spiel is the ultimate "end-game" of sorts. If it wasn't so damn contrived already anyways. Just based off the title nothing good is going to come out of that discussion. I'd have deleted it too if it were up to me since it's such a bad title. Why would I even want feedback from a person who threatens me? Why would I entertain what little that person probably has to offer when there are hundreds of posts on very valid threads on these forums as well as many other well known gathering places like Reddit where people are actually trying to help.

End point: If you want things changed, Act like it. I haven't liked Whm since ever, I got it to 50 in 2.0 and quit. So I can't offer any type of constructive criticism in that regard. However remember this, Just because a class isn't meta doesn't mean it can't perform well, be fun to play and also be viable. People like to pretend only the Meta exists; Maybe it's to feel closer to their favorite players in a game, Maybe it's because they want the best strat to win, Maybe they don't wanna math it all out themselves and go with someone who seems more knowledgeable than them, and sometimes it's just a bunch of Sheep who can't think for themselves. Regardless of the reason, you're a fool to think any class isn't viable. Maybe not world first, but tell me exactly how many of you are actually trying to achieve world first? I'm willing to bet that 99% of you have never attempted or will attempt a world first clear. However in that regard whm wouldn't be the only class left out of the cool kids club now would it? There will always be a best and worst.

Try to understand that Devs have to attempt at making every class in their respective role the same but different. All tanks Need to be able to tank, deal and mitigate relatively the same amount of damage, but they need to be able to do it differently from one another. The same can be said for healers, They need to be able to heal, do some damage, and offer various utility that is different, yet balances out to be the same worth or of the same "Value". DPS are no exception. It's difficult to do and the more classes you have the harder it becomes in that you need to try and make every class... Again, the same, but different.... Otherwise the end result is something unplayable. I do sorta see where they were trying to go with the Whitemage changes, and you can't hate them for trying something out. I can't say with 100% confidence that it's a horrible system. But then again i don't have a horse in this race. I do have confidence in the community as a whole though, and the dev team. If something needs to change, I'm sure it will.

Edit: Spelling