PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Khemorex]

Welcome to online gaming, where the community sets self imposed standards with the tools and limitations offered from the Devs. When Devs give you High DPS capabilities and low monster damage output, the community responds by DPSing.

It's not "someone" who made the meta, it's the community itself.

Of course like I said, you're always welcome to go against the grain per se, but the community is technically allowed to impose their meta on you in the form of vote kicking.

ofc its someone , and the rest follows like sheeps ^^

[KisaiTenshi]

Are you implying tossing a few DPS spells in bouts of downtime is unreasonable?

There's the issue guys. Can't win against a brick wall like that.

What downtime? You implying a healer has enough time to watch an episode of something on netflix while the party is taking no damage by themselves. There is currently a penalty to actually switch in and out of cleric stance, plus the recast time of sending a DPS spell flying. So if you're okay with no healing for 15 seconds while the healer throws off an inconseqential DOT that will not even be missed then don't complain when the tank buster comes up and the whm has exhausted their magic reserves and can not switch back to healing mode and has no magic to heal with.

It's as if players haven't actually tried playing content with PUG's.

[Aramina]

It's as if players haven't actually tried playing content with PUG's.

No, it's more like you didn't read the first damn post in this thread to see it is about SB when there will be no penalty.

ofc its someone , and the rest follows like sheeps ^^

Yes, one person is completely responsible for how every player is expected to play. /s

[Faliandra]

What downtime? You implying a healer has enough time to watch an episode of something on netflix while the party is taking no damage by themselves. There is currently a penalty to actually switch in and out of cleric stance, plus the recast time of sending a DPS spell flying. So if you're okay with no healing for 15 seconds while the healer throws off an inconseqential DOT that will not even be missed then don't complain when the tank buster comes up and the whm has exhausted their magic reserves and can not switch back to healing mode and has no magic to heal with.

are we playing the same game?

I mean, seriously, are we?

I do dps all the time, PUG or not. Especially WHM is the easiest to handle since Holy comes with a Stun. In fact, its easier to keep squishy tanks alive that way than trying to keep them healed up by spamming heals.

You say you preserve MP...what for? WHM has quite a nice arrangement of nice instant emergency skills which all cost 0 MP?


How can you have been playing since 1.0 without figuring out your class? I just dont...get it. You act like roulette dungeons are hard with consistent heavy dmg spikes and heavy tankbusters.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

What downtime? You implying a healer has enough time to watch an episode of something on netflix while the party is taking no damage by themselves. There is currently a penalty to actually switch in and out of cleric stance, plus the recast time of sending a DPS spell flying. So if you're okay with no healing for 15 seconds while the healer throws off an inconseqential DOT that will not even be missed then don't complain when the tank buster comes up and the whm has exhausted their magic reserves and can not switch back to healing mode and has no magic to heal with.

It's as if players haven't actually tried playing content with PUG's.

Yes. I know people who do it. One even argued with me about going into tank stance so they could multi-task watching youtube easier. I even gave you an example a few pages back where I literally never dropped Cleric for a full boss fight and barely did throughout the entire raid itself. And inconsequential damage? Healers can pull 1,500+ in dungeons if the tank does a decent pull. In Solm Al Hard, I use Divine Seal + Regen on the tank and maybe Asylum, then I DPS for the full duration without ever needing to touch them. If they do take slightly more damage than expected, I drop stance, toss them Cure II/Tetra and go back into Cleric. My MP is more than adequate because I manage it properly. You are acting like healers deal pitiful damage and the risk to stance dancing is enormous (Cleric has a five second cooldown, not fifteen). Maybe you don't appreciate the capabilities of your job enough.

[Ayer2015]

That's because there are still people, like you, who still don't get it.

You assume I don't dps. I just understand people choose approach a game in a manner that suits them, even if I don't play that way myself. Bottom line, people are arguing over 10min max on a run. If the healer is healing, they are filling the role they signed up for.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

What downtime? You implying a healer has enough time to watch an episode of something on netflix while the party is taking no damage by themselves. There is currently a penalty to actually switch in and out of cleric stance, plus the recast time of sending a DPS spell flying. So if you're okay with no healing for 15 seconds while the healer throws off an inconseqential DOT that will not even be missed then don't complain when the tank buster comes up and the whm has exhausted their magic reserves and can not switch back to healing mode and has no magic to heal with.

It's as if players haven't actually tried playing content with PUG's.

You mean that 80% of the time that no heals are required? That time spent spamming /dance? That downtime?
You mean that inconsequential penalty that a competent healer will never notice if they put their HoTs up?
You mean those worthless DoTs that add up to 50 potency to all enemies if WHM and 120 potency to all enemies if SCH? That absolutely abysmal Holy spam that can output upwards of 6k damage per second burst (combined with Assize and Aero III) giving the actual king of aoe damage DD class (SMN) a run for its money?
You mean that tank buster that inflicts as much damage to the tank as a sneeze that they can often take two or three of before needing any healing whatsoever?

It's as if some players truly don't understand how to play healers effectively.

Granted some pugs will test your limits as a healer but no one is abdicating letting people die to do damage. We're asking that you spend the 60 seconds of time you normally spam /hildy to throw out some damage too instead of being worthless.

You know, I used to be in the "Healers shouldn't have to dps if they don't want to" camp, and after really paying attention to how much time healers have to stand around doing nothing and talking to a few people about their view on the subject, I'm completely ashamed that I ever thought that way.

[Miste]

It's as if players haven't actually tried playing content with PUG's.

Um...we are on the same server so I can tell you for our Data Center as a healer main I queue into full PUG DF groups every day and I can DPS in all of them.

I don't think I've seen a DF group that bad that I couldn't DPS at all...even undergeared tanks usually is not a problem on WHM especially if you prepare properly with regens before you start Holying. WHM definitely should not have trouble with powerful regens and instant spells like Tetra and Benediction(which can be used in Cleric Stance with no penalty since it is a 100% heal automatically) and the fact that Holy stuns every mob in the pack up to 3 times.

Not to say it won't ever happen, but if you 100% can't cleric to DPS because your party is dying left right and center then I am pretty sure no one cares you aren't doing any healer DPS in that situation O.o

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You assume I don't dps. I just understand people choose approach a game in a manner that suits them, even if I don't play that way myself. Bottom line, people are arguing and over 10min max on a run. If the healer is healing, they are filling the role they signed up for.

If we're going to technical, a Black Mage spamming Blizzard or a Dragoon single targeting mobs in large pulls are still performing the role they signed up for. After all, they are dealing damage. It may be severely gimped damage, but it's damage nonetheless. Keep in mind, the devs allot us 90 minutes for a dungeon run. So long as it's completed within that timeframe, it's technically successful.

[Tsumdere]

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

The meta is the (loose) rules. You are free to play however you want as per any game, but don't expect other people to want to play with you.

If you've been a regular reader of the forums since V1.0 you'd know that this "Players make unreasonable demands of other players" all the time.
...
Nobody seems to care if the player is trying their best.

a) "Poorly Drawn Troll Post" - Sorry I didn't find the next Mona Lisa in meme form for you.

b) Didn't realise that pressing one button in between heals was unreasonable. Guess I was defying all odds everytime I played healer.

c) If you actually gain some reading comprehension instead of glossing over posts, you'll see that literally no one has said they will force people to DPS. I will point out a healer not DPSing - if they say they are new or don't feel that great today (I know I play much more passively when I've got a cold), then I'm all game to let them stay. However, if they respond as aggressively as you do and screech about how they pay for the game (guess what, so do I), I'm gonna kick them to the curb faster than light.