Harassing Healers - or: Please allow Parsers

[TaranTatsuuchi]

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First, a parser is simply a tool that provides a data point about your performance. It does not judge the conditions, nor count any intangibles that happened, the circumstances are irrelevant only the number matters. It can't teach you how to be better, it can't make you want to do better, and it can't help you dodge AoEs or handle mechanics more effectively. But, it can give you a number.

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I don't have personal experience with them, but from conversations I've read about parsers and a logging site...

Parsers do more than just spit out a number.
They can tell you exactly which combinations of buttons and skills you used through the entire fight, and lay them out in an easy to read format.

That sounds like something that could be useful for improvement.

All this thread is making me want to do is stand around and just heal and not DPS like I normally do. I want to see just how often I get yelled at, if at all.

Seriously, my curiosity is getting the better of me.

For science!

Just remember to take painstaking notes. Such as the post I intend to link care of Taika. (You'll have plenty of time!)

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

[Kosmos992k]

I don't have personal experience with them, but from conversations I've read about parsers and a logging site...

Parsers do more than just spit out a number.
They can tell you exactly which combinations of buttons and skills you used through the entire fight, and lay them out in an easy to read format.

That sounds like something that could be useful for improvement.

Sounds more like an RPG version of painting by numbers. Of course you could practice your rotation against a dummy or in SSS. But no matter because that parser can't help a healer heal, or a tank tank, it won't tell you when to use your support skills, it won' tell you to dodge that AoE, or when to move, stack, spread out, etc... It can only tell you how you are doing with respect to dealing damage. Honestly if you need something like that to help you understand which of your skills should be used and in what order to do decent damage, you haven't been paying attention during regular play.

[BigRed5392]

I've never seen a healer getting kicked of flamed for not dpsing. If a healer just heals me if he has to and otherwhise just jumps around or stares in the air, i will make him heal.

I don't understand how someone can just stand around as healer and wait until he has to heal a bit, thats just damn boring.

getting blamed for a wipe due to a misclick cleric stance can do that. happen to my g/f on an alt she made, and she used to healing/dpsing just was rusty. the tank said "just heal" this was in sastasha story.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

Parsers are just glorified training wheels, especially since they can also apparently be modded to some degree to tell people when to move or what to do... so it's really just the game playing itself for you.

[Kosmos992k]

Parsers are just glorified training wheels, especially since they can also apparently be modded to some degree to tell people when to move or what to do... so it's really just the game playing itself for you.

Sounds like rather than increasing the skill of the player it simply provides a crutch to lean on, not quite the savior some would paint it to be eh?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Sounds like rather than increasing the skill of the player it simply provides a crutch to lean on, not quite the savior some would paint it to be eh?

More or less~ At the very least, that's how they've been described to me, and all I could think of was '...So you need your handheld'. I'd prefer to see the actual skill level go up, rather than see people just plug in the moveset of whatever they're doing and following a GPS.

[Greedalox]

I'd prefer to see the actual skill level go up, rather than see people just plug in the moveset

You're aware that these are exclusive right? Skill level can go up and that wouldn't negate the other? What are you even arguing anymore?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

You're aware that these are exclusive right? Skill level can go up and that wouldn't negate the other? What are you even arguing anymore?

For people to Git Gud. Someone that needs to have their program tell them when to use what skill is infinitely less skilled than someone that can see something coming and know how to respond.

The former necessitates everything to go perfectly with no ability to adapt to unexpected changes, while the latter can see something happen that wasn't accounted for and know how to respond.

...I also want them to make healers more fun to play rather than being AFK DPS bikes but can't have everything I guess.

[Shougun]

Sounds more like an RPG version of painting by numbers. Of course you could practice your rotation against a dummy or in SSS. But no matter because that parser can't help a healer heal, or a tank tank, it won't tell you when to use your support skills, it won' tell you to dodge that AoE, or when to move, stack, spread out, etc... It can only tell you how you are doing with respect to dealing damage. Honestly if you need something like that to help you understand which of your skills should be used and in what order to do decent damage, you haven't been paying attention during regular play.

People generally dont note this feature as much because it becomes really sketchy but one of the most popular readily taught to use parsers actually can do many of those features. You could for example have it tell you need to use your defensive cooldown, need to heal soon because of x ability (made more possible because fights are fairly scripted), that your aggro is in danger, a certain mechanic is coming up, basically it can be a second pair of eyes that wont /play/ for you but it could do many of the features that people dislike DBM for (certain things easier than others).

It' not a hidden thing either lol, its pretty obvious feature in the tool you'll easily find. Not everyone will use it of course, but yeah just throwing that out there.

I think many hardcore raiders benefit from parsers as they begin to "science" out their job and the dungeon mechanics (even if not using the warning features, they can see how hard stuff hits, when (easily reveals scripted moments), and how to better respond to it), some of that even spreads to the rest of us (for all the good and bad that does - lol). The whole DBM thing I guess could be argued as a crutch, but I believe the parser is like if you were stuck in a doorway or a ring on your finger - you could keep trying to rip it off, push through, or you could slather some butter on it and keep your finger intact and take far less time doing it (although some people never care to get out the gate hehe).

Anyway, just wanted to make sure people are aware that one of the promoted tool is also one capable of telling you that you need to stack cause Ahk, boss is casting a tank buster, boss will cast a tank buster, big aoe room damage is coming - set up heal shields now, sands are coming next, your ability is ready, need to tank swap (buff reading), other similar like messages, and of course let you know you need more accuracy, you rarely crit, you're overhealing too much, dps is low because you're missing your dot in rotation, cooldown usage isn't optimized, etc. This improved awareness will increase clear rates, but I have no idea how many people use it - its not my scene, but like DBM it could be having an adverse effect on the tuning of our content via a tool not everyone even uses (technically I think SE would be frustrated with this part, but the feature is bundled right into the big parser as I mentioned - so one comes with the other if you'd so wish it to be used).

I personally just want to get onto the mod train and I see SE's antiparser stance as a wall to that path (since people would probably make one in the mod if their mod system isn't overly simplistic). I miss so many /MASSIVE/ QoL mods from WoW and people are already using the ones that people felt made it hurt lol (Well WoW's DBM is better than what people use now, but we've already got "Recount" (mod) lol). Like omg Atlasloot, Altaholic, better UI overall, Details!? See my retainer and other items whenever I want? Catalog all the items I've seen and try them on? Track my rates so I can discern what is both fun and efficient, with ease. Calculate if i'm pricing/purchasing my items like a drunk dwarf at the market. Peggle.. Peggle!? lol. DBM is a tough one they should probably attempt to nix or seriously think about, it is actually very help for casual players who don't want to watch a guide but also not fail super hard but it'll make any content meant to be "hard" much harder if you then don't use that mod which is a bit unfortunate (it doesn't move your character or press buttons for you, but it makes nearly anyone of any skill level very situationally aware).

For people to Git Gud. Someone that needs to have their program tell them when to use what skill is infinitely less skilled than someone that can see something coming and know how to respond.

Parser gives more information, it doesn't tell you how to solve your issues it just paints a very detailed picture of your issues. You still need personal skill to solve them both off and on the court. (Excluding the side feature mentioned above, which uh.. does actually reduce the awareness skill required). Of course those willing to try with extensive information will solve the answer both faster and more efficiently, making them more likely to also be "better".

I'd compare a parser to a book. You don't always need to study to get the concepts or to be good at the subject, but high chance the person who studies is going to have a stronger grasp of the entire situation in a more efficient manor. Some people are just naturally beautiful others learn to be, cutting out your learning tool and not being a natural - you're going to be crawling across the fiery coals for a while lol. (For that reason the suggestion for personal parser is better than none imo, I'm not greatly concerned for party ones but wouldn't be opposed to it either. A personal parser at least will help the people who care and everyone else will still just be blind to each other lol).

I think the funniest thing for me with this whole parser comment is I used to raid a lot in WoW and /loved/ the parser for all the help it was for myself and my group, but here in FFXIV i'm pretty damn casual so I just read what better people than I thought (from information they got from a parser lol). So its not even something I use now, but I know how absolutely amazing they can be - they absolutely can make you and your team better (if you're willing to "study"). In this game tho, I just watch the guide, read about job rotations sometimes, and show up XD. But hey I also don't do savage content so yeah :P. (If it was available in game / via mod I'd use it though)

[Alerion]

Parsers are just glorified training wheels, especially since they can also apparently be modded to some degree to tell people when to move or what to do... so it's really just the game playing itself for you.

Huh? I literally just want to be able to see how much damage per second I'm doing. Nothing more, nothing less.