Weird english

[Mysteltain]

As has been said by others (and I feel that it needs repeating) the Japanese and English scripts, as well as French and German, are written concurrently with all Localization members in a constant dialogue with one another. Further, as stated by Koji Fox, the English version of the script is technically the "original" in most cases. Anyone continuing to ignore this fact, honestly, doesn't much deserve to participate in a discussion on the localization since you're not contributing anything but misinformation--you're borderline trolling.

Now that I got that out of my system, I don't find many issues with the text or dialogue in this game. As others have also said, directly translating lines of dialogue from English to Japanese, or vice versa, or in any other combination of languages, is pretty bad. You see a lot of that in older games and it is often terrible. That is why we have "localization" teams nowadays, and not just "translation" teams, since localization implies a translation of a foreign language with attention being paid to not just the language, but also the culture from which the languages originate, both in terms of country and location there within.

I'm no expert on translation, but I read quite a bit of translated--not localized--text for pleasure (largely Old World myths and legends, but some more "recent" works like The Tale of Genji or even Dante's The Divine Comedy), so I feel like I have at least some insight into the process. And I can tell you that the majority of the time, directly translated text is an absolute slog to read through. It's stilted with no flow whatsoever. But with better translators, they may add or remove words, yet still retain the meaning of a phrase or name. Even better yet, some translators will have footnotes explaining why they translated certain lines (or even single words) in the way that they did. Those notes can even be paragraphs long for goondess sake, and for a single word, at that! And that's because some words or phrases (especially idioms) simply lack an adequate translation into another language. So in context with the localization of this game, the occasional stumble included, they've done a pretty good job of it, in my opinion (although I can only speak for the English localization).

That's my little rant on this topic. Sorry if it came across as arrogant or rude at any point, but I felt I had to contribute something to this topic.

[Zojha]

That is why we have "localization" teams nowadays, and not just "translation" teams, since localization implies a translation of a foreign language with attention being paid to not just the language, but also the culture of both languages.

The "culture" of the language tends to have fairly little meaning in the process - more important is the culture of the region you're localizing for. It's pretty much in the name, "local-ize", to make it local or suit locally. That can go as far as changing facts - Turning female heroes into males, changing the ideology of the hero from one to another etc. A very common example would be the removal of visible bones/skeletons for chinese clients - that, too, is localization. Depending on the differences between the original intended audience and the audience something is localized for, the differences between the versions can be very small or very big - imagine a bard trying to localize the story of a valiant dragonslayer for a flight of dragons. Chances are, the dragonslayer becomes a dragon in the localized version.

That said, seeing as I have no idea how the texts are supposed to look and what message is supposed to be conveyed, I'm not really qualified to judge the english localization. I personally just skip the texts if people are trying too hard to look archaic.

[Mysteltain]

The "culture" of the language tends to have fairly little meaning in the process - more important is the culture of the region you're localizing for. It's pretty much in the name, "local-ize", to make it local or suit locally. That can go as far as changing facts - Turning female heroes into males, changing the ideology of the hero from one to another etc. A very common example would be the removal of visible bones/skeletons for chinese clients - that, too, is localization. Depending on the differences between the original intended audience and the audience something is localized for, the differences between the versions can be very small or very big - imagine a bard trying to localize the story of a valiant dragonslayer for a flight of dragons. Chances are, the dragonslayer becomes a dragon in the localized version.

That said, seeing as I have no idea how the texts are supposed to look and what message is supposed to be conveyed, I'm not really qualified to judge the english localization. I personally just skip the texts if people are trying too hard to look archaic.

Fair enough, I should have been a bit more specific. Was a bit rushed when I first typed that--I'll make a quick edit so as to not confuse the meaning.

Although you are absolutely right that such drastic changes can happen, and they especially happened back when civilizations started to meet one another. I've been reading up on Japanese myths and legends, and the sheer amount of changes that Buddhism went through on its journey from India to China to Japan, and how that altered and affected both local and national mythology, legends, and their perception of those is incredibly fascinating. And I mean that in both how Buddhism, itself, changed and how Buddhism changed the myths of the nations it passed through. A lot of what you mentioned is exactly what happened.

And I ought to have brought this up earlier, but if anyone wants an example of how bad localization can get (and I mean really bad), look up "Bowdlerize."

[AshlikeSnow]

And now that I think about it, Ishgard has the Machinist guild. Guns and flying turrets that do not at all match a medieval setting o:

Its the medieval speech that is being discussed here and how off the top it is compared to the original Japanese work. The MCH presence in FFXIV has nothing to do with the genre that the English Localization team is forcing in its translation of dialogue, storylines, etc. That is why I keep saying that the English translation is very different from the Japanese work because of how old English it is.

[MistakeNot]

I understand that the English dialogue is as it is, to give that sort of old, fantasy feel, and I do like it to some extent. But imo it would have more of an impact if only some of the npcs spoke in this way. in short bursts, it's fine, but in longer cutscenes I just lose the thread of exactly what anyones talking about, so some of the story is probably lost on me.

my personal preference would be if the older npcs, and primals spoke like that, but then there were also some "normal-speaking" people on the team that could sort of keep it on track. they could even have bits where our character's like "wtf's he on about?" and then someone explains

In my opinion most people in the game actually speak fairly normal English. It is mainly Hydaelyn, dragons, Urianger, and perhaps a few others that I can't recall right now, that go in for the archaic English. (And then we have the Rogue's guild who are speaking some special sort of slang/jargon.)

[Zigabar]

original.

[Nestama]

Its the medieval speech that is being discussed here and how off the top it is compared to the original Japanese work. The MCH presence in FFXIV has nothing to do with the genre that the English Localization team is forcing in its translation of dialogue, storylines, etc. That is why I keep saying that the English translation is very different from the Japanese work because of how old English it is.

It really is pointless arguing with you.

What original work? You don't listen to anyone, and you refuse to accept actual truth while constantly arguing circles and circles (mostly around yourself). But there is no "original work" Enkidoh pointed out to you that BOTH the English and Japanese versions of the game have been concurrently written with each other.

NOT to mention YOU completely ignore and just OUT RIGHT refuse to look at the proof someone EVEN linked for you in an earlier thread about this almost same topic.....

Know what else is ridiculous? You also being wrong by claiming that there's an original Japanese script.

The head English localizer flat out states that they have a hand in creating many of the game's terms and the lore. (Also in video format!) They help localize the English names and terms back into Japanese. Localization is far more than just translation.

[Lukha]

While I am extremely critical of the English localization team's often extremely questionable decisions, I'm always surprised to hear people complain about the way the dialogue is written, since that's one of the few things I'll miss once I'm confident enough in my kanji knowledge to say good-bye to the English text for good. The medieval flavor is very tasty, and shouldn't pose a comprehension problem to the average literate English-speaker.

My issue with the game is how different the actual content can be between languages - and I don't especially care which version is the 'original', though I do question how much of the actual writing the English side of things is responsible for (I'd wager it's mainly sidequests like Hildebrand's, and some of the basic lore, while most of the main story comes from the Japanese devs; this just seems the most efficient method, and matches with both the general flavor I would expect from writing Koji had a hand in, and past mentions regarding things like the Hildebrand questlines taking extra time because of the need to contact the devs to have certain animations made). Whether the original writing comes from the JP team, the EN team or some kid they hired off FF.net, I'm mostly concerned with the fact that the actual content does not match between languages, which is an unacceptable failure in quality from a multiplayer game where every country (Except China and Korea) plays together on the same set of servers. If I want to discuss the story with an FC mate who plays in French, I shouldn't have to worry that we got two different versions of events, or a particular character's personality came across as wildly different in her version of the game, even though we just watched the same cutscene.

For instance, one scene that I rarely see mentioned; when you first go to see Matoya, in English she's pretty harsh to Alphinaud, and (obviously) pretends to mistake him for his sister, while the Japanese line was something like 'Ah, you're Louisoix's grandchild; the boy' - where the Japanese word for grandkid is not gendered, so she specifically added a word to the sentance to point out she knew he was the grand[SON. This has always bothered me, since it makes her come off as much more of a bitch than I think she was intended to. Unless, of course, the English was the 'original' here, in which case the Japanese version should have kept the same tone, and I could happily dislike Matoya for being a rude old broad.

[Nestama]

I feel that was more of a joke (it doesn't change the story, it just adds extra spice and personality for the character), as that was not the first time Alphinaud has been mistaken for his sister.

Rewatching that scene, the way she talked to Alphinaud was far from harsh. If anything, she was being cheeky.

[AshlikeSnow]

I feel that was more of a joke (it doesn't change the story, it just adds extra spice and personality for the character), as that was not the first time Alphinaud has been mistaken for his sister..

You are speaking about the English localization I don't remember that happening ever in the Japanese take.