Mog Station is overpriced.

[Clover_Blake]

Where am I trying to convince people that they are "evil incarnate"? I'd thank you to please not take my statements to extreme hyperbole in an effort to support your own position.

ALL I've said is that FFXIV's cash shop offers a demonstrably worse deal than other MMOs that are F2P and B2P. That is a fact. I'm sorry you've played MMOs that are even worse cash shop price-wise, but that doesn't mean that FFXIV's is good.

Yet the fact you've seen two games with costumes that were cheaper than 13,50€ doesn't make the FFXIV cash shop bad.

First, because the majority of popular games' cash shops are more expensive, or WAY more expensive (not being the cheapest ever doesn't mean it's not on the cheap side in comparison). And second, because you simply decided to omit the price of the other costumes, as well as the fact that most of them could be obtained for free in-game.

The problem simply seems to be the fact that a cash shop even exists. It doesn't matter if it's helpful for the game to improve; it doesn't matter if the majority of costumes could be obtained for free, and it doesn't matter if the majority of costumes for sale are 10€ or less.

If I'm using hyperbole to support my own position, you are using convenient wording and half truths to demonize the FFXIV cash shop.

[Naunet]

If I'm using hyperbole to support my own position, you are using convenient wording and half truths to demonize the FFXIV cash shop.

What on earth is a half truth about my statement that GW2, WildStar, and Rift all offer better deals for costumes than FFXIV's cash shop? That is a real, completely true fact. It's also a fact that they are either F2P or B2P, relying in large part on cash shop sales for their income - something that FFXIV does not have to do.

I didn't "omit" anything. It doesn't take much effort to look at an $18 single-character costume and then point to other games that sell $5-$9 costumes that unlock on the entire account in perpetuity.

And with "demonize", the only one using convenient wording is you.

[Ametrine]

Hmm, you know, there is a strong possibilty that said MMOs price their items lower based on the fact that they need to sell more items via Cash Shop to break even or profit. It's less frovolous to their bottom line, so they need customers like you to see the selection, see the low price, and buy them all up to profit from you.

And profit they do, apparently.

Basically, complaining that people aren't buying things doesn't matter to SE. They really don't need to sell many to make money and put out more content on top of our sub fees.

So, hmm.

[Kaurie]

Hmm, you know, there is a strong possibilty that said MMOs price their items lower based on the fact that they need to sell more items via Cash Shop to break even or profit. It's less frovolous to their bottom line, so they need customers like you to see the selection, see the low price, and buy them all up to profit from you.

And profit they do, apparently.

Basically, complaining that people aren't buying things doesn't matter to SE. They really don't need to sell many to make money and put out more content on top of our sub fees.

So, hmm.

I am confused, and may have misread what you are saying, but are you suggesting that FFXIV pricing their items higher earns them less revenue? Therefore, it's worse for both Square, and for consumers? And this is your defense of the system, or are you saying they should lower their prices?

[reiichi]

I am confused, and may have misread what you are saying, but are you suggesting that FFXIV pricing their items higher earns them less revenue? Therefore, it's worse for both Square, and for consumers? And this is your defense of the system, or are you saying they should lower their prices?

It seems so. There's a supply and demand argument that could be made there. Cheaper items will sell more often than expensive ones. There is a point where something because too cheap to profit or too expensive to break even.

For an MMO that survives off of quick cheap transactions (or really, almost any mobile game these days), they get a lot of money from $1-$3 purchases. It's easy for someone to handwave a dollar or two or three. But if those same perks were $10? $15? The game would probably flop.

In FFXIV's case, the more recent outfits like the ones takes from the Chinese and Korean distributions of the games likely had a lot more costs to them than say, the FFXIII outfits. I wouldn't be surprised if the profits were split between International FFXIV (JP, EN, DE, FR), SE corporate, and whatever country they licensed FFXIV to.

[Kaurie]

It seems so. There's a supply and demand argument that could be made there. Cheaper items will sell more often than expensive ones. There is a point where something because too cheap to profit or too expensive to break even.

For an MMO that survives off of quick cheap transactions (or really, almost any mobile game these days), they get a lot of money from $1-$3 purchases. It's easy for someone to handwave a dollar or two or three. But if those same perks were $10? $15? The game would probably flop.

I 100% agree that cheaper prices will earn them more money. I just don't understand how consumers and producers both losing out means that the cash shop is good as it is.

[tjw]

I just don't understand how consumers and producers both losing out means that the cash shop is good as it is.

Which consumers are losing out? As far as I'm aware, most of the mogstation items would not even exist if they weren't implemented into the mogstation, meaning that everyone loses out without it. Each patch brings with it a truckload of new glamours, mounts, minions and bardings that are available in-game so we're not losing out on content that is comparable to previous non-mogstation patches.

While cheaper prices may be incentive for more people to buy the items, there is only going to be so many people who will actually purchase the item. It's ok to say that $3 transactions are easy to fork over money for, but many people:

• Are vehemently against spending any extra money that's beyond their subscription and access to the game
• Don't see how the item helps them ingame, doesn't think the item has value to them, or finds it highly unattractive (see: plastic wings)
• Are not aware of the mogstation optional items existing or don't care it exists
• Budget tightly IRL where even a deviant of a dollar is enough to throw their strict plans into disarray
• Will think to 'purchase later' and never end up buying it
• Simply have no trust in the mogstation or SE themselves
• Already buy other things from the mogstation (see: fantasia addicts)
• Are content with playing the game with the variety of content already available and waiting for something that will truly blow their mind(I fall in this category)

...and many other reasons. It just won't be a direct ratio of numbers; 100 people buying an item at $20 won't miraculously turn into 1000 people buying an item at $2. I have barely any background into market fluctuations, however, SE has a team of market analysts and financial teams at their beck and call. They will make mistakes, of course, but I'd say they have a better grasp of their intended market compared to the forums.

[Clover_Blake]

What on earth is a half truth about my statement that GW2, WildStar, and Rift all offer better deals for costumes than FFXIV's cash shop? That is a real, completely true fact. It's also a fact that they are either F2P or B2P, relying in large part on cash shop sales for their income - something that FFXIV does not have to do.

I didn't "omit" anything. It doesn't take much effort to look at an $18 single-character costume and then point to other games that sell $5-$9 costumes that unlock on the entire account in perpetuity.

And with "demonize", the only one using convenient wording is you.

"The fact is, when you compare the items available on the Mog Station to comparable items in other F2P and B2P games, they are WAY more expensive - and not even account-wide. It's a poor deal" <-- again (this is getting a bit redundant), you are obviously wording things to make it look like the FFXIV cash shop is on the expensive side of MMORPGs, and it's "a bad deal" because the prices are, apparently, too outrageous for items that "aren't even account-wide", as if the norm was otherwise.

You omited the part that the majority of cash shops from other games are more expensive than the FFXIV one, and the majority of general ingame costumes are single character only.

You also omited the fact that FFXIV's cash shop sells many items for cheaper than those you listed in your games (the newest Witch Attire: 3,50€), and that those items even used to be free.

You're also ignoring how the money invested on the cash shop translates into improving the game, which is good for everyone, really.

Basically, you are using convenient wording and half facts to "prove" that the FFXIV cash shop is, indeed, a bad deal, when it's actually either close to the norm in MMORPGs (on the cheaper side) or cheaper than the norm. And I obviously will call that demonizing.

I'm sorry if you still find it expensive; it's clear it's a bad deal to you personally, just like spending a single € on a costume in any of the games you listed would be a bad deal for me (because I don't like them, and that's basically how things work). It doesn't mean that those prices are bad on their own, and you should not decide on what's a good or a bad deal for other people.

[Kaurie]

Which consumers are losing out? As far as I'm aware, most of the mogstation items would not even exist if they weren't implemented into the mogstation

Feel free to read more than the few words, I suppose?

We are referring to higher prices than competitors mean that square gets less sales so less revenue. So, the price is high (loss for consumers) and the sales are low (loss for square). If they lowered the prices (win for consumers) they'd get more sales, more revenue and more profit (win for square).

That said, I agree with your points that there is a limit on who will spend money in the cash shop. The conversation was in response to someone admitting that lower prices would get higher sales and thus higher revenues, but square doesn't need revenues, so they have higher prices. I just don't get that logic, as there is no incentive for them to have higher prices with those assumptions.

[tjw]

The conversation was in response to someone admitting that lower prices would get higher sales and thus higher revenues, but square doesn't need revenues, so they have higher prices. I just don't get that logic, as there is no incentive for them to have higher prices with those assumptions.

I may have misunderstood something with the conversations in this thread bouncing around a lot, so my apologies if I somehow addressed the wrong point. However, I'd like to rebut the bolded part. SE is definitely in need of revenues; they're a company, they need money to develop more games (see: FFXV and FFVII remake). And in this day and age, the pricing SE has for FFXIV's subs are highly unsustainable; I'm trying to find the source, but reportedly the money they get from subs itself barely breaks even with the costs. If we take into account inflation, the sub cost of $14.99 a month is actually cheaper then FFXI's sub cost of $12.95 in 2005 (assuming the sub cost didn't increase; feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Costs are vastly more expensive now comparatively, so SE is definitely in need of more revenue to maintain their servers. This isn't even counting Legacy subscriptions which are vastly cheaper.