Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mysterysword]

I'm a blackmage, I have infinite MP, why would I want to remove a card that doesn't give me any disadvantages? O.O

I don't know why, but I've run into more than a few ASTs at 60 who insist on giving me Ewers as a BLM. In Creator, even. I don't click it off, because I don't really need to, but I can't stop wondering why.

That said, it got me to thinking about which cards can actively become a disadvantage for BLM. I can't think of any of the effects that would straight up be a disadvantage, except maybe Spear, if it happened to be cast before the BLM starts their rotation. I know my rotation is based entirely around the cooldown times of Ley Lines, Enochian, Raging Strikes, and Convert, and messing those cooldown times up would probably cause me to mess up too.

Also, earlier today I landed in Final Steps with 3 MNKs and an AST. By the time we finished up the adds phase, all 3 MNKs were at around 500 TP each, yet I got a Balance while one of the MNKs received an Arrow. Although to be fair, given this discussion, I suppose it doesn't really matter, and I'm not entirely sure how much Arrow actually benefits me over Balance.

EDIT: I have 1200+ Spell Speed as BLM, and it's only going to get higher because I like having time to dodge AoEs. But the more SpSpeed I get, the less time Arrow takes off my cast time, while Balance is a straight-up gain no matter what. I'm already at the point where Convert is a staple in my rotation because the limiting factor in my Fire IV spam isn't the duration of Enochian, but my MP. When I don't have Convert available during the second Ley Lines/Enochian pop in my rotation (when both Raging Strikes and Convert are on CD), I have enough time to exhaust my MP, hop into Umbral Ice for 1 MP regen tick, then get back to Astral Fire and get one or even two Fire IVs off before getting back to Umbral Ice for Enochian refreshment. So I suppose it is entirely possible that an Ewer, maybe Extended or Enhanced, would be able to regenerate enough MP to negate the need for me to switch into Umbral Ice.

... not that I've been able to test this yet.

[Ghishlain]

I would have to disagree. If you die in a fight, you lose DPS. Even if you are only down for 10 seconds, that's still 10 seconds of lost DPS. Coupled with weakness for 90 seconds after being raised, I don't think you can make up the DPS you lose from being dead (compared to if you didn't die at all).

While I understand the scenario you're presenting I think you do need to approach it differently. There is zero benefit to dying. There is a benefit to gaining an attack speed +10% card. With that in mind the better question to ask is "Does a DPS front loading their DPS result in more overall DPS than having a phase where they run with zero TP for a short period of time?" and "Is there a benefit to front load the DPS at the risk of losing DPS later in the fight?" Of course the answer to these will vary from fight to fight and circumstance to circumstance.

• You're at zero TP with a DPS check phase coming up? Well crap..
• We're smashing A9S so fast we have no worry about TP issues? ARROW AWAY!
• Does Arrow cause me to clip my DoTs far sooner than I would like? Hmmm....

The theorycraft for Arrow is much more involved than a lot of people give it credit for and I can understand the pros and cons for both. There's no easy answer to "well, is Arrow good or not good?"

Of course the ultimate solution is "Why go for Arrow when we got BALANCE???!?!?!?!?!?!?!" *Grumbles softly at S-E about that*

[Maerwen]

My uber derp in Ravana HM last night. We had two new tanks and one new DPS. We explained the fight and right before Ravana starts to shove, I warned them he's about to do it and get to a wall. Guess who fell off first? My uber derp self.

[Annah]

:P it happens

[HyoMinPark]

snip

I feel like I was addressing this earlier, while not in the same terms as you have laid out. And perhaps my wording was not the best, but I was thinking about the situations you outlined in your post while typing out my response. Again, probably didn't do a good job at all of conveying that. My response you quoted there was just to say that it is mathematically possible to lose DPS in a fight--in other words, by dying. Didn't have anything to really do with the Arrow good/Arrow bad conversation. I also think one can lose DPS by going on auto-pilot and not paying attention as fights drag on, which happens more often than not, I've seen anyways.

Anyways, back to the off-topic topic!

I did express that there is a potential for DPS loss later on if a DPS bottoms out on their TP, and are left with nothing but the option to auto-attack/use a skill after each TP regen tick (and go sub-50/0 again) until either Invigorate comes off cooldown (if they have it cross-classed, which they should, but you know some people don't, either out of laziness or ignorance), or if they have a party member that can help them replenish TP (BRD/MCH or AST managing to pull a lucky Spire for them).

Let me bring up the DRG I met in my SephEx clear. They mentioned they had over 1,000 Skill Speed. And they were almost completely bottomed out before we even hit the add phase in that fight (which isn't really that far into the fight). I was imagining just what an Arrow would do to their TP, which is kind of what got me into this little debate we're having (even if it is very off-topic from the thread, still interesting to see the differing view points, nonetheless). Let's just say, worse cast scenario, they don't have any party members to immediately help them recover their TP (no BRD/MCH to play a song/use their TP turret, and the AST isn't having any luck drawing those silly Spires--because we all know the minute you need a Spire or a Ewer is the minute RNG decides to stop giving them to you). Let's say they used Invigorate already, and it is still on cooldown for another 90 seconds. There is 90 seconds of sitting at sub-60/0 TP. 90 seconds of DPS loss (since they can't really do much with only 60 TP), which in a fight like an EX primal that has an enrage, could mean the difference between a clear and hitting enrage--and it's even worse since they bottomed out before the add phase. This, while an extreme example, is why I can see why some melee click off the Arrow buff. Granted, TP loss for a DRG with 1,000 SkS is going to happen anyways, but I can see where melee wouldn't want to run the risk if they only had, say 700-750 SkS.

With that example above, I still think the potential buff from an Arrow doesn't really outweigh the loss that particular DPS would suffer after they bottom out. Like you said, a lot of the things are circumstantial and situational, and I agree with that. I still think some don't even want to run the risk of running out of TP earlier than they would in some fights--which is why they just rather click it off. I also agree with you that there is no solid "Arrow is good!" and "Arrow is bad!" answer.

Well, at least Balances will always have a plus... now if I saw a DPS click off a Balance, I would be concerned. ._.

[Dragon_Sanders]

Ahhhh find it troublesome on 80th PoD. Yesterday I tried twice and both wiped there. We couldn't get rid of it without a healer! Why did the match system set up a group with no healer (sometimes no tank either) for the 51+ floors? Even on the 30+ of the old version we seldom met with that occasion...
After all I don't want to try a team like that again...I know some others are capable, but for me, I should not overestimate myself. Just picked up my CNJ and tried to add a healer there....a clumsy solution, I know.

[Mysterysword]

I queued for Leveling Roulette as PLD on a whim yesterday. So there I am, a level 60 PLD that is nicely overgeared, and I'm dropped into Gubal normal.

Normally, I'm not insane enough to attempt pulling multiple groups in there. But this time, the party was a WHM, BLM, and SMN, although all level 59. So I asked if we wanted big pulls, and came to a compromise that if we ended up wiping, I'd just pull normally.

And we made it. In all honesty, I probably should've just gone back to smaller pulls, since the DPS wasn't particularly stellar and the WHM couldn't DPS at all even with me chaining defensive cooldowns and throwing in the occasional Clemency, but it was actually fun, for a change, to constantly risk dying horribly. Because in this one instance, I actually felt assured that if we ended up wiping, nobody would be salty or swear at me over it. It's kind of sad how tanking is such a stressful job that playing like a reckless driver ends up being a rare but amazingly fun occasion.

[Ninster]

With all my friends running Palace without me at the moment, I was kinda stuck with running roulettes as usual yesterday. So ran them I did. And Lvl 60 roulette lands me in Sohr Kai with a warrior that had the hardest time holding hate. Even with Quelling I was sitting at yellow-orange on most mobs, without I was outright tanking them. Of course there was a geared ninja that was splitting hate with me, and even the AST got in on the fun.

After a close examination, I think this might have been the culprit. AND possibly the ilvl 150 chest piece. But hey, he had his lore accessories!

[vanitaslaughing]

I don't like getting an Arrow, enhanced, expanded, extended, whichever, when I'm on dragoon for one simple reason: TP ticks happen at the same rate, no matter what. Yeah, it's theoretically a gain for me if I go faster, but my general dragoon rotation alone is a loss of, in the event I manage to not accidentally clip and do a GCD before the refresh tick happens, 60 per rotation (10 Heavy Thrust, 10 Impulse Drive, 30 Phlebotomise, 10 for whatever starts Full Thrust combo again).
That's one entire tick I lose every 20ish seconds, which means 180 TP per minute. Dragoon has the benefit of traited Invigorate, which is 500 TP - with a cooldown long enough that you might be dipping below 400-500 again when it comes off CD.
An Arrow speeds that whole process up and has me at a disadvantage because Arrow doesn't do anything to Invigorate's cooldown.
In A9S I've used Invigorate by the time Full-Metal Faust drops and it's still on CD, any AOEing I did on packs outside of Geirskogul and one Dragonfire Dive notwithstanding.

So yeah, I can relate to people who click off Arrows as melee DPS. It's already a pain, and hey, it might be an increase but might make you suffer in the long run. It's already bad enough I got chewed out by someone in A9N once because I was basically throwing up TP - I constantly got the Arrow, you see. Single target. Enhanced. At some point I was sitting there at a flatlined 0 and had to wait two ticks to even START my rotation again, because Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive both cost 70 TP - thats 120-70+60-70+60... Yeah, I've already lost 20 again. Invigorate is on Cooldown and people are chewing me out. Yeehaw
(Then again I'm too lethargic to click off an expanded Arrow, it doesn't do that much damage to my TP, but the others are... shouldn't you be putting that enhanced arrow on the casters. Please. I'm dying.)

Related; got Snowcloak on 50 Roul. Tank's doing massive pulls and I'm a little rusty on WHM, doesn't really matter though.I'll refrain from DPSing then, I'm fine with healing through that... Except tank misses an Ice Sprite, it chews me up so I try healing myself, tank get's chomped to death, we wipe. Tank and I apologise, both BLMs joke around with us - tank pulls again, smaller this time... and I let him die because my sister's distracting me with a story about our bunnies.
Tank jokes about sacrificing the Lala BLM to Fenrir to make up for my hubris, I say they better release me from the Relic by doing so...
Ends with
"Hope he likes cats"
"He's technically a dog, he should (like me)"
I left with 3 comms. Felt good.

[Ametrine]

I need to point out that "clicking off" buffs is a gigantic pain in the ass on controllers.

The fact that there are so many examples of sound disadvantages to every card, and how even "good" card is situational to the point even they can trip up otherwise skilled players, is basically what had me finally hang up my globe. I'd rather just have more DPS and heal options at this point, despite how aethetically fitting astrologian is for me.

Oh well. I'm just gonna main SMN now.

Speaking of which, I found myself a little too terrified to LB with a melee in my party on Chrysalis last night. Our mistake was our melee was the newbie, so despite our warning him to save the LB for the tear, we didn't say when the tear spawned for him to LB it.

Second round, he did flawlessly, but I still felt awkward for not just doing it myself after seeing he wasn't ready >.<