What Skills Should Become Role Specific.

[Sylkis]

My opinion only

TANK:
*Provoke
*Convalescence
*Foresight
*Rampart (Can nerf some war mitigation skills for this one)

Healer:
*Cure
*Esuna
*Raise
*Swiftcast
*Surecast
*Stoneskin (+Stoneskin II)
*Protect
*Stone 1 (or some other Heavy inflicting)
*Cleric Stance (How can I forget)

CASTER:
*Swiftcast
*Surecast
*Blizzard 2
*Raging Strikes

PHYSICAL DPS:
*Blood for Blood
*Invigorate
*Hawk's Eye
*Second Wind
*Mantra


These skills can then be enhanced by job specific traits.

[Ryujin99]

My opinion only

<specifics pulled out below>

These skills can then be enhanced by job specific traits.

I really hadn't given this issue much thought, but this list got me thinking a bit, so I'll make some comments and other suggestions of my own.

Tank:
Provoke - given the existence of tank swaps and the fact that all three tanks can currently cross-class Provoke, I agree this should definitely be a skill shared by all tank roles.

Convalescence - this seems like a likely candidate to share among all roles, but I don't think it's an absolute necessity.

Foresight - certainly a useful cross-class, but for reasons discussed in the next bullet, I'd hardly be upset if this is not chosen as a role skill.

Rampart (Can nerf some war mitigation skills for this one) - This I strongly disagree with. For starters, both PLD and DRK already have a Rampart equivalent (PLD actually has Rampart, while DRK has Shadowskin which has the exact same effect and duration). Further, I don't think any class/job-specific abilities should be nerfed to make room for a cross-class/role-skill.

Also Foresight is a very close analog to Rampart, though not an exact copy like Shadowskin (ie. learned at the same level, same cooldown time, same effect duration, and same effect scale (20%)). So I would propose something more like:
-make foresight a non-cross-class skill and possibly change foresight's effect to be an exact clone of Rampart
-eliminate Shadowskin and Foresight then give all three tank classes Rampart at Level 2
-leave Foresight and Rampart more or less as they currently are

Bloodbath - given that this is currently a cross-class available to all tanks I suggest that it is about as likely to be a future shared role skill as Convalescence. Certainly not a necessity, but would be a nice touch I think.

Mercy Stroke - another skill worth consideration.

Awareness - while certainly in 2.x this was a pretty terrible cross-class skill, it has pretty good synergy with Raw Intuition on WAR currently.

Healer:
A number of the suggested abilities here already exist in some form or another, but each healer's version of these abilities are slightly different from one-another. While it may seem like a minor thing to gripe about, I would prefer to keep these abilities distinct from one-another for the sake of traits or other job-to-job differences.

Cure - all three healing jobs currently have a healing spell learned below level 5 with a heal potency of 400 (equivalent to Cure); however, the MP cost, modifying traits, and level at which the spell is learned differ from job to job. Taking numbers and traits at level 60 on the main job using the skill:
(WHM) Cure: Level 2, MP cost 442, 15% chance next Cure II(lv 30) costs 0 MP, which chains with Cure II proc to reduce Cure III cost to 0 MP (currently can be cross-classed by PLD, SCH, and AST as well as many classes)
(SCH) Physick: Level 4, MP cost 442, no traits, but natively available to SMN (currently can be cross-classed by WHM and BLM as well as several classes)
(AST) Benefic: Level 2, MP cost 353, 15% chance next Benefic II(lv 26) costs 0 MP (can't be cross-classed)

Esuna - as with Cure, all 3 healing jobs currently learn a spell with an equivalent spell effect and base MP cost to Esuna, though none of these can be cross-classed. At level 60:
(WHM) Esuna: Level 18, MP cost 618, 20% chance to cost 0 MP
(SCH) Leeches: Level 40, MP cost 618, no traits (note Selene's Fey Caress is an AOE 60s cooldown ailment purge usable when level synched to 20 or higher)
(AST) Exalted Detriment: Level 18, MP cost 618, no traits

Raise - all healers learn a spell with the same effect and base MP cost at Level 60.
(WHM) Raise: Level 12, MP cost 2652, Enhanced Raise trait allows use in battle at Level 28 (currently can be cross-classed by PLD, SCH, and AST as well as some classes)
(SCH) Resurrection: Level 22, MP cost 2652, no trait required for use in battle (cannot be cross-classed)
(AST) Ascend: Level 12, MP cost 2652, Enhanced Ascension trait allows use in battle at level 20 (cannot be cross-classed)

Swiftcast - This I wholly agree with due to the need to Raise party members in battle.

Surecast - While this makes sense at first glance, the rarity with which I have used it, seen others use it, or hear of cases where it is helpful to use it leads me to question its practical usefulness.

Stoneskin (+Stoneskin II) - I like Stoneskin, but I'm not sure how much I really want it to be a role ability, especially since both healers other than WHM have some other means of applying damage shields to party members even if those shields don't have nearly the maximum duration. As for Stoneskin II, as nice as it can be for quality of life reasons, I don't think it really needs to be shared among all healers and I think it's fine to let that be a unique point of the WHM job.

Protect - Given that the trait buffing Protect was already consolidated into the base spell seems like a strong indication that it will be one of the future role-skills.

Stone 1 (or some other Heavy inflicting) - All healers, and in fact all ranged classes, have access to this already through a variety of abilities. At level 60:
(WHM) Stone: Level 1, MP cost 353, 140 potency, 40% heavy for 20s
(SCH) Miasma: Level 10, MP cost 442, 20 potency + 30 potency x 24s DOT, 40% heavy for 24s (note: also has MiasmaII which is an AOE + DOT including the 40% heavy for 15s; both Miasma spells shared with SMN)
(AST) Stella: Level 22, MP cost 442, 100 potency, 40% heavy for 20s

Eye for an Eye - handy cd to throw on a tank even if it doesn't have the reduced cd or party-spread potential it gains when used by a SCH.

Cleric Stance - as has been mentioned by several others, if you plan on hurting whatever you're trying to damage it's pretty much required for healers.

CASTER:
Personally, I feel like the current cross-class pool for Casters is pretty awful. The only two things I think are really nice currently are Raging Strikes and Swiftcast. The rest either feel like patches for job deficiencies (Blizzard II) or a waste of space like Virus, Physick, Hawk's Eye, and Ruin.

Swiftcast - as with healers, I think Swiftcast is pretty much guaranteed for Casters, though certainly not quite as necessary. (but boy do I get some mileage out of it)

Surecast - Same opinion as I have including it for healers.

Blizzard 2 - while I think all casters should have some sort of basic AOE spell, I really don't like Blizzard 2 being the spell of choice here (I mean it's so expensive). That said, much as I dislike it, it seems likely to stay that way.

Raging Strikes - no argument here. I like Raging Strikes, and I'd like to see it continue to be available as a Casting DPS role skill.

Thunder - the irony that the cost is the same as Blizzard II is not lost on me. All the same, I'd like to see Thunder back on SMN (any any future Casting jobs), but I'm certainly not getting my hopes up.

Something new - in the hypothetical scenario where we get an additional spell-using DPS job (Red mage perhaps?), maybe something being added with the new job could become a role skill shared among all casters.

Quelling Strikes - ridiculous as it is, I get more use out of this on my SMN than I realistically should. More importantly, perhaps, it's currently the only real threat management available to either of the current Casting DPS jobs.

PHYSICAL DPS:
Side note, but it's not really fair to dump all physical DPS into the same boat. BRD and MCH function far more similarly to SMN and BLM than they do to the melee DPS. On top of that, the fact that some of them use Dex while others use Strength as their base stat can also make lumping them all together a bit misleading. So really we have three distinct groups of physical DPS currently (melee Str, melee Dex, and range Dex). If we take this as an analog to the way a lot of tabletop RPGs work (melee damage can be based on Str or Dex, range damage is always based on Dex), it seems likely that we will only see these three groups going forward as well.

Blood for Blood - not much to say here other than to voice my agreement; however, if there is differentiation between melee and ranged physical DPS, then it might be fair to swap this for Raging Strikes for ranged jobs.

Invigorate - not much to say here either. It's practically a necessity for long fights or AOE situations.

Hawk's Eye - the Dex bonus is 100% worthless for any Str-based class or job since secondary effects of Dex (parry bonuses IIRC) were removed. This leaves the guaranteed hits, which I don't think is worth using when it's only up for 20 seconds on a 90s cooldown, especially since DPS classes shouldn't be missing enemies in the first place.

On the other hand, for Dex-based jobs (range physical and NIN currently) Hawk's Eye is a bit better than Raging Strikes when you account for the lower cooldown time.

Second Wind - seems like a probable candidate, though personally I am rather partial to Bloodbath for more sustained healing.

Mantra - maybe if the role-skill version was equivalent (or at least comparable) to the buffed version of it MNK currently gets, but in its base form Mantra is a pretty awful cross-class ability.

Internal Release - not bad for a 60s cooldown even without the buffs MNK gets to it, so I'd like to think it would be a likely candidate for a role skill.

Bloodbath - actually quite useful for self-healing as a melee DPS. Definitely a better option than Mantra at present.

Mercy Stroke - another useful skill for self-preservation that might not be a bad option for melee DPS roles.

Featherfoot or Keen Flurry - unlike the previous 2 suggestions these two mitigate damage rather than heal damage after its taken. Not sure how likely it is or isn't, but they seem like possible considerations as well.

Raging Strikes - currently available to MCH from cross-class and a skill native to BRD/ARC. Seems like a realistic expectation in the future, at least for ranged physical DPS.

[Gravton]

I'd rather see surecast allow your next cast to be used on the move. Hard casting res or summon would benefit. Fight or Flight on a war would be crazy to see. The one thing I never really understood was in a cross class system you wouldn't be able to select any ability you want from a class. I understand the job crystal could limit my paladin from knowing my drg's skills. But if my warrior of light is a paladin why does he forget everything he learned as a lancer? Yes the weapons are different but some of the skills don't need that weapon.

[Cabalabob]

I'm more wondering if we'll get new low level skills to replace what we lose.

E.G. Since GLA is probably losing provoke to role skills, will we get something in its place? I'd love for GLA to get its own version of cure that scales off physical damage rather than magic like clemency. Maybe first aid?

Maybe CNJ could get something to raise accuracy in place of cleric's stance. And some kind of mitigation tool instead of protect?

It would kinda suck if other jobs get to free up a cross class while the jobs who had the skills originally just lose some of their personal toolkit.

[ErikMynhier]

I'd love for GLA to get its own version of cure that scales off physical damage rather than magic like clemency

I believe Clemency works off our Attack rating. If someone knows different let me know, but I think it does.

[Kikoten]

I'm excited and anxious at the same time. I'm starting to hit 60 with more jobs, and all too soon everything I know about jobbing is going to go bye-bye... hopefully for the better. I really, really hope that with the 4.0 combat changes, I don't go into a huge fight going, "Shit, where's X spell? Where's Y ability?"

That'd probably make me cancel my subscription. Don't make it confusing, SE, pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaa... *gasp for air* ...aaaaaase?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I believe Clemency works off our Attack rating. If someone knows different let me know, but I think it does.

Clemency scales off attack power, and has nothing to do with the Magic stat.

[Shurrikhan]

Preferably none. Just give the role-required skills for free on the roles that need them, and have them take up a cross-class slot on those they're niche and/or optional for.

So far the first category only really seems to include Cleric Stance and Provoke.
Though, I'd also be fine with seeing certain essential but less impactful skills such as Raging Strikes, Swiftcast, and Blood for Blood be gained after x levels acquired in the given role.



Apart from those two skills every benefit that could come from removing those options from every class not of that "role" can be gained by simply improving the UI and through embedded tips...
...and without the negatives of... stripping away all possible off-role gameplay and whatever fun might come with it.

I'd really rather just see certain cross-class skills improved in their usability and breadth of affinities than any of these role-restrictive revisions, apart from making Cleric Stance and Provoke automatic acquisitions for their roles, at levels 1 and 15-22 respectively.

[Eul]

I believe Clemency works off our Attack rating. If someone knows different let me know, but I think it does.

It's depend of damage indeed. I tried Clemency with Fight or Flight and the potency increased.

On topic, I just want those debuff skill like AST's Stella is either become useful at 4.0 or remove it at all (Or just become pvp skill).

[Cabalabob]

I believe Clemency works off our Attack rating. If someone knows different let me know, but I think it does.

Bad punctuation I meant to say a cure that works off physical stats like clemency does. As in a cheap MP cost, low level 400 potency cure because cross class cure is garbage because it works off magic stats that GLA/PLD doesn't have.