All North American Data Center Worlds Network Technical Difficulties (Oct. 26)

[worldofneil]

It's very strange that traffic isn't being routed around this.

The ISPs would have to do that and for whatever reason(s) they're not. Perhaps the right people at the ISPs aren't aware of the issue or perhaps they just don't care because they'll lose money by routing via someone else and it's easier for them to just wait it out until Level 3 are working again.

Level 3 is the last leg to the servers in the NA Data Center

It's not. It's *a* last leg, but it's not the only last leg. My ISP (thankfully) never routes me through Level3 and while I appreciate that doesn't help anyone with a problem and for that I apologise... but this comes up every few months and the only way it's going to be fixed long term is moving ISPs to someone who doesn't route via Level 3 or customers somehow putting enough pressure on those ISPs to change their routes.

[Akonyl]

This happened to me last night, was hoping it'd be resolved by the time I got back from work today, but apparently not. Hope I don't end up having to raid on my phone tonight.

Hopefully my character still being logged in (as I'm guessing it is, it was logged in for three hours at least) doesn't cause issues with logging in from a mobile connection.

[Kosmos992k]

It's not. It's *a* last leg, but it's not the only last leg. My ISP (thankfully) never routes me through Level3 and while I appreciate that doesn't help anyone with a problem and for that I apologise... but this comes up every few months and the only way it's going to be fixed long term is moving ISPs to someone who doesn't route via Level 3 or customers somehow putting enough pressure on those ISPs to change their routes.

That's just not an option, look at the ISPs involved. Comcast, Charter, Time Warner, AT&T. They cover what, 95% of US ISP customers? Changing ISPs isn't gonna happen, this is a Level 3 issue and they need to be fired and replaced. I understand that they might not be the last hop for some, but they are for most in NA (at least east of the Rockies).

[worldofneil]

Isn't it time that SE fired Level 3 for being crap?

SE didn't choose to route via Level 3 to get to your destination (the Square Enix servers)... your ISP did. Square Enix have nothing at all to do with Level 3 so cannot fire them.

That's just not an option, look at the ISPs involved. Comcast, Charter, Time Warner, AT&T. They cover what, 95% of US ISP customers? Changing ISPs isn't gonna happen, this is a Level 3 issue and they need to be fired and replaced. I understand that they might not be the last hop for some, but they are for most in NA (at least east of the Rockies).

I do appreciate that and agree they need to be replaced, but you're leaning on the wrong company. The ISPs in question need to stop using Level 3 and use different routing, but they probably have an agreement to use Level 3 which saves them money over other routes. So long term they won't want to route elsewhere as they would lose money and I'm sure no customer wants their Internet price to rise to compensate...

[Kosmos992k]

SE didn't choose to route via Level 3 to get to your destination (the Square Enix servers)... your ISP did. Square Enix have nothing at all to do with Level 3 so cannot fire them.



I do appreciate that and agree they need to be replaced, but you're leaning on the wrong company. The ISPs in question need to stop using Level 3 and use different routing, but they probably have an agreement to use Level 3 which saves them money over other routes. So long term they won't want to route elsewhere as they would lose money and I'm sure no customer wants their Internet price to rise to compensate...

Level 3 has been a problem with FFXIV since the inception of ARR and probably before. I don't agree at all that it's up to the many customers to somehow put pressure on their ISPs to fix this. This is a peripheral issue at most to any of the ISPs involved, most of their customer support people don't know how to reset the modems never mind know what a peering agreement is, who level 3 are and why it's a problem for people playing games on one particular game company's servers. SE on the other hand has a lot more to gain/lose, it's a big issue for them, and it's a big issue for their partners. I don't know whether SE has any direct contract with Level 3. If they do, then they need to contact their customer agent and kick them hard, If not, and it's indirected through Ormuco, then SE needs to kick Ormuco hard enough for them to raise the priority with Level 3. End users are essentially powerless in this kind of situation because the impact and importance of the business affected is so dilute on the customer ISP end, that they literally have a financial interest in playing dumb - it would cost them far too much to investigate and 'fix'. The only 3 organizations that are in a place to do something about this are, SE, Ormuco, and Level 3. Level 3 as been a problem for years and years, and that's pretty well known. Ormuco - I don'tknow. SE is the business most impacted by this and *have* to do something to protect their own business interests.

And I cannot get in on my mobile hotspot (as I feared) because it's an AT&T phone & network.

Level3 isnt the only side being a problem.
When its possible to log in to some of our alts on the same server, but cant log into others, there's an issue on SE's side as well.

I can't get to any of them, getting to the actual data center lobby server would be an improvement, but it ain't happening. It really doesn't matter whether it's SE's fault or not, they bear the burden of being the service provider of the game, and they have to ensure that this kind of problem either doesn't happen, or get's resolved.

[worldofneil]

I don't agree at all that it's up to the many customers to somehow put pressure on their ISPs to fix this. This is a peripheral issue at most to any of the ISPs involved, most of their customer support people don't know how to reset the modems never mind know what a peering agreement is, who level 3 are and why it's a problem for people playing games on one particular game company's servers.

The customers are the ones giving the ISPs money each month. They have the biggest chance of actually making a change happen.

SE on the other hand has a lot more to gain/lose, it's a big issue for them, and it's a big issue for their partners.

Only if people actually unsubscribe over this and I don't think that many will. The problem will get fixed and brushed under the rug again for another few months. Anyone who researches it will realise it's not Square Enix at fault and it's a Level 3 issue.

I don't know whether SE has any direct contract with Level 3. If they do, then they need to contact their customer agent and kick them hard

I don't know for sure if they have any contact either, but it seems unlikely as they're not directly connected. SE therefore can't dictate policy and the only way they could influence Level 3 would be to throw money at them... where's that money coming from? Subscribers? Why should my subscription costs go to paying for your ISPs bad routing instead of improving the game that I pay for?

SE needs to kick Ormuco hard enough for them to raise the priority with Level 3.

Depends on the agreements Ormuco has with Level 3, but that might be an option. But it also might not be, the traffic is coming FROM Level 3, they're losing/messing it up before it even gets to Ormuco.

End users are essentially powerless in this kind of situation because the impact and importance of the business affected is so dilute on the customer ISP end, that they literally have a financial interest in playing dumb - it would cost them far too much to investigate and 'fix'.

End users SHOULD be the most powerful because you should be able to voice your thoughts by moving ISP if one doesn't work out, but I appreciate that in the US there are lot of monopoly situations so that isn't always viable. That doesn't make it acceptable for the company causing the issues to get away with it though. Why is it acceptable for your ISP (who chose the route) to play dumb and not fix it rather than route you differently?

The only 3 organizations that are in a place to do something about this are, SE, Ormuco, and Level 3. Level 3 as been a problem for years and years, and that's pretty well known. Ormuco - I don'tknow.

Do you have shares in your ISP or something? You seem to acknowledge that they chose your route, so why do they have a get out of jail card for fixing the problem they're causing you?

SE is the business most impacted by this and *have* to do something to protect their own business interests.

Only if their subscribers decrease significantly and chances are that (like every other times this happens), L3 will be working again within a few days and everyone will ignore it again for a few more months.

And I cannot get in on my mobile hotspot (as I feared) because it's an AT&T phone & network.

Will you be complaining to your ISP to see if they will route you differently? I think I already know the answer.



I can't get to any of them, getting to the actual data center lobby server would be an improvement, but it ain't happening. It really doesn't matter whether it's SE's fault or not, they bear the burden of being the service provider of the game, and they have to ensure that this kind of problem either doesn't happen, or get's resolved.[/QUOTE]

[Kosmos992k]

The customers are the ones giving the ISPs money each month. They have the biggest chance of actually making a change happen.

You appear to have a very idealistic view of consumer power in this instance. None of the large ISPs will care one iota about this issue. You mentioned SE not worrying about subscription loss, how much less so will ISPs worry about customer loss? This routing issue affects only one service that any of their customers want to attach to. Everything else my house uses the net for still works.

thanks!!! thats very helpful information so i can undy whats going on so they are going to fix it so we all can get back on?

I wish I knew. There have been problems like this before, and they were resolved. The trouble is that if there are disputes between Level 3 and ISPs, none of us, SE included, has a direct line to the problem. SE has the largest single financial clout of the customers involved, so they might be able to put some pressure on Level 3 to fix things. If every customer affected by this problem contacted their ISP about it and told the ISP the specific nature of the problem, perhaps the ISPs might take note, but somehow I doubt that a significant portion of those affected will even contact their ISP, never mind tell them exactly what is needed so that they can understand what the problem is to affect a solution.

[worldofneil]

You appear to have a very idealistic view of consumer power in this instance.

Perhaps, but you also seem content with forcing an unrelated company into fixing a problem caused by others... Guess we'll have to agree to disagree (and I'm home now and my ISP doesn't use L3 so I can/have logged in and I want to go and play rather than keep trying to explain things on these forums!)

[VraeliaValkyria]

but somehow I doubt that a significant portion of those affected will even contact their ISP, never mind tell them exactly what is needed so that they can understand what the problem is to affect a solution.

Well, last night. I was kicked off of my internet and was given Limited Access. When I went to the kitchen to make coffee, I noticed a truck outside. And a person was working on wires, across the street. Those wires, are directly connected with giving me access to the internet. So, I am guessing Time Warner Cable was alerted on this, and progressing on fixing things like this. However, I am still getting problems with DC'ing. Which makes me think, that it isn't JUST people's ISPs. But the connectivity with SE's servers.