Drk tanking outside of grit

[Knahli]

Are people suggesting that the OT stop using their highest potency DPS combo so that the MT can use their one instead or am I missing something here?

[Claire_Pendragon]

Are people suggesting that the OT stop using their highest potency DPS combo so that the MT can use their one instead or am I missing something here?

Did you read peoples responses and are you curious, or are you being sarcastic, despite the explanations?

Or were you the type who asked ASTs to shield instead of SCHs before the buff to AST?
"Are you suggesting the AST stop using their highest mitigation heal so the SCH can use their one instead or am I missing something here?"

[InvincibleShield]

think they are suggesting that the OT sacrifice 40 potency every other combo to increase the main tanks dps far more than what the OT is losing, increasing the raid dps as a whole. Or that in a situation where both tanks really don't need their tank stances at all the war should just main tank.

[Kiteless]

Are people suggesting that the OT stop using their highest potency DPS combo so that the MT can use their one instead or am I missing something here?

Yes. People are suggesting that the WAR drop an average of 30 potency per combo so that the DRK gains significantly more MP efficiency, an increase of up to 130 potency per combo, and a raw DPS increase of 25%, in addition to a 15s 10% attack speed buff every 40 seconds.

It's an insignificant loss in DPS for the WAR so that the DRK is capable of making absolutely massive gains in theirs.

[Hierro]

I main WAR, but I play DRK on the side. While I'm not the most hardcore player out there, in my two-dozen experiences tanking and clearing Sophia ex with both tanks, I've seen some WARs who believe they should be using BB. Sure, some times it's okay, but in others it's stupid. You get WARs who think "HURR BUT MUH DAMAGE!" thinking they've made the best choice in using BB during berserk, only to let SE fall off and lose 10% on their next eye application assuming they fit in 3 or two FCs and fracture. They think they're doing the best when they're actually not.

In such fights, you want eye up as much as possible. It is in danger of falling off even if you're adhering to eye block alternation strictly, only because the boss jumps around quite a bit and there are moments of lost uptime to keep the buff up. In those instances, the safest thing to do is to spam eye. You're not losing much damage and you're ensuring that you, your MT, and possibly your NIN are enjoying from that SE at all times.

While playing DRK, I once had trouble keeping hate from the WAR ot, and he was getting annoyed. Granted, any OT would be annoyed if the MT couldn't keep hate, but his reason for being annoyed was because he was only using BB after every third rotation. SE, SP, then BB. You can't possibly juggle all 3 combos while using FC and fracture without having SE fall off for a good portion of the fight. He failed to realize that when the tanks are in such a close range of aggro from constant swapping, using BB even once can screw up the balance (especially with gritless DRKs), and that he was letting SE fall off constantly. No, he had to insist he was right and I was pushed into tanking in grit for the remainder of the fight all because he insisted on using BB. I couldn't enjoy all the mana in the world from weapon and price along with the damage, all because he wanted that extra miniscule potency from BB over SE.

tl;dr gritless tanking as DRK is no issue so long as you're pumping out the DPS via enthusiastic use of DA SE. If not, your WAR ot is most likely being very self-centered and short sighted. It's in everyone's best interest if he just spams SE while he OTs.

[Sarcatica]

The key for a successful WAR OT is pretty much looking at enmity bar now and then. Using BB combo is fine until your aggro is almost reaching 1st. It's especially bad if you just tank swap. It's the same dilemma as PLD when cotank swaps, you have to hope for the aggro to stick if you spam RA combo.

Every damage gain is a gain. It's just how you want to control the aggro. You can have people worry about aggro even when the aggro is still 50% of the bar, and you have tanks playing with 99% aggro bar because they know they can do it.

You don't absolutely need huge aggro lead before going Grit-less, you have a lot of mana to play with if you aren't in Grit. 1 more Power Slash combo isn't going to deplete your mana by that much. Do what you can to maintain aggro, or it's just better to let the guy tank for you.

[FallenWings]

Just putting it out there that you can fit butcher's into a berserk rotation without dropping eye by making it as your first combo in.

[Lyth]

snip

PLD generates additional enmity throughout the course of a fight, through SB and Shield Swipe procs, so enmity is generally tighter on DRK.

But the bigger problem is this: SE > BB is not a "rotation". It's a priority system. Maim and SE take priority over everything else, and WAR aims to maintain as close to 100% uptime as possible. There's absolutely no point talking about a 20 potency loss every 6 GCDs if you're dropping your 20% damage buff. It's penny wise and pound foolish.

If you're doing this correctly, the ratio of SE to BB isn't anywhere close to 1:1, and enmity shouldn't really be an issue. It's more a problem on inexperienced WARs who assume "Oh, my last combo was SE, so my next one should be BB," without regard for their buff/debuff timers or target swaps. If Maim and SE aren't both up (or are at risk of falling off), BB should not be used. Stop what you're doing and fix it. I've seen people with less than a 50% Maim uptime before as a result of BB overusage. It's atrocious.

It's not just about the fact that forcing a PLD or DRK to use an enmity combo causes a bigger raid dps loss than it is for WAR stop using their enmity combo as offtank. It's the fact that, if you're playing WAR optimally, you shouldn't be causing enmity problems as OT. You'll generate less enmity, but do far more dps.

[SpookyGhost]

Are people suggesting that the OT stop using their highest potency DPS combo so that the MT can use their one instead or am I missing something here?

BB combo is 20 potency higher than SE combo.

RoH is 90 potency lower than RA / 380 lower than GB (probably slightly less due to the clip idk).

PS is 100 potency lower than SE / Delirium is hard to explain but basically it's a higher loss than just 20 potency due to Syphon Strike vs Spinning Slash.

Sacrificing a 20 potency combo for the PLD/DRK to avoid using their enmity combo is a gain. Truly good WARs recognize how many BBs they can actually do in a fight without ripping, but you also have to account for tank swaps (want to be doing SE before the BB combo to tank swap) and Fracture uptime as well as stack usage. Having a competent NIN gives you more leg room but it's still pretty tricky. If you don't know the ins and outs of a fight, GCD to GCD, it's better to just stick to spamming SE and keeping up Fracture (specifically as OT, if you're tanking then you're free to BB unless a tank swap is coming up).

[Mirch]

If the MT has aggro problem ,it is not OT's using enmity combo, it is the MT's deal-with-your-aggro problem