Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mysterysword]

Weee wooo

As it so happens, I didn't think standing back and spamming Shield Lob would get me aggro back. I did, however, believe that a Provoke + Shield Lob would do the trick. Which is exactly what I did. It failed anyway, which is what I didn't expect, though I know what caused it. By the time that had happened, it was too late to do anything else. The funny thing about close-range combos is that they're a lot easier to land when your target isn't being led on a merry run away from you.

EDIT: By the way, if you think I was only complaining about this one run in my original post, you are sorely mistaken. My grievances were built up, run after run, thanks to mistakes which I will freely admit not only I made, but other people made, yet which were all solely attributed to the fault of me and my co-tanks. Things like DPS refusing to stack for mechanics, or dying to a tankbuster I'd faced away from the group, because the DPS in question ran into it. And another run in which the MT died, and the WHM got aggro, then promptly proceeded to run in circles while screaming at me to pick up aggro when they had regen up on everyone, while I was also being hampered by paralysis that nobody deigned to cleanse.

[SessionZero]

-snip-

I'll grant that Shield Lob does more enmity than an uncombo'd RoH, but doing nothing but standing there spamming Shield Lob isn't going to do much better. And the AST wasn't "running around like a chicken with their head cut off" as Siesta claims.

My argument isn't that healers are perfect, or even that the AST was right for casting CU right as BJ spawned, because Siesta is right that it was unnecessary. My contention is that she's blaming everyone but herself for not knowing what she was doing, and yet also not making that point known so that we could compensate, and on top of that being passive aggressive, snarky, and unapologetic about it in the actual run. AND THEN having the gall to come here and whine on the official forums like she was the poor victimized party in this.

[Pells]

Erm...

Protip: If you're going to post a condescendingly aggressive response, at least get your own protip right while you're at it.

Sound advice.

Rage of Halone UNCOMBOED does 300 Potency of Enmity
Shield Lob is 360 Potency of Enmity
(...)
Enmity References

The link you provide states that Rage of Halone has a x5 enmity multiplier. With an uncomboed potency of 100, that makes it 500 potency of enmity. Thus, an uncomboed RoH is better than Shield Lob, as far as enmity generation goes.

Mysterysword:
Paladins get Tempered Will, which will (among other things) prevent knockback effects. When Brute Justice is forming, you can use this to position yourself right behind him without getting thrown back when he lands. This will allow you to hit him with Circle of Scorn, Rage of Halone, and Spirits Within before he can move out of range. Bonus points if you have Fight or Flight running as well. This should be enough to overwhelm any regen ticks, even if you are relatively undergeared.

[Ghishlain]

I'll grant that Shield Lob does more enmity than an uncombo'd RoH, but doing nothing but standing there spamming Shield Lob isn't going to do much better. And the AST wasn't "running around like a chicken with their head cut off" as Siesta claims.

My argument isn't that healers are perfect, or even that the AST was right for casting CU right as BJ spawned, because Siesta is right that it was unnecessary. My contention is that she's blaming everyone but herself for not knowing what she was doing, and yet also not making that point known so that we could compensate, and on top of that being passive aggressive, snarky, and unapologetic about it in the actual run. AND THEN having the gall to come here and whine on the official forums like she was the poor victimized party in this.

*Nod nod* I can appreciate that. To me there's always three sides to a story: the left side, the right side, and the truth (which ends up being a combination of the two sides). I will freely admit that I am basically forum policing where I shouldn't ATM since I dislike overly hyper aggressive / passive aggressive and condescending posts as they tend to add nothing but gas to a flame and I felt you added more flame than substance for those two posts so I apologize for that.

I'm always of an opinion that even if you're mad at someone you should try to at least be respectful and professional since that at least you can hold a morale high ground. To me, based on the comments / replies, it feels like it was a giant flame fest that just ignited into this one particular incident and a lot of salt could've been avoided. XD Ah well.

As a random tangent- oooooooo that art. lol.

The link you provide states that Rage of Halone has a x5 enmity multiplier. With an uncomboed potency of 100, that makes it 500 potency of enmity. Thus, an uncomboed RoH is better than Shield Lob, as far as enmity generation goes.

O.Ops! *Random ninja edits* In the immortal words of Winston: "How embarrassing".

Though as a tangent thought, using Session Zero's suggested chain, going from Provoke > Flash > Circle of Scorn would net more enmity overall versus Rage of Halone in the middle. That's assuming I'm correct in thinking the Shield Oath multiplier applies to all abilities, attacks, and spells; including non-damaging ones.

[SessionZero]

I'm always of an opinion that even if you're mad at someone you should try to at least be respectful and professional since that at least you can hold a morale high ground. To me, based on the comments / replies, it feels like it was a giant flame fest that just ignited into this one particular incident and a lot of salt could've been avoided. XD Ah well.

I'll concede that I was probably more aggressive and snarky than I needed to be. It just rustled my jimmies to see Siesta playing the poor me card when I can clearly recall her attitude during the aforementioned instance, and the fact that she gave no warning that she was still learning the fight/job. My apologies to both you and Siesta for that.

As a random tangent- oooooooo that art. lol.

Well thank you!

[Mysterysword]

I don't pretend I'm perfect or innocent. Even in my original post, I made it clear that I know I've screwed up several times in A8. What I'm annoyed about is how tanks, not just in A8, but elsewhere, get endlessly blamed for things that are out of their control, even when they're legitimately trying their best, while people will bend over backwards to accomodate a lazy or bad healer.

I have all 3 roles at 60 and play them regularly. I've been on every side of a fight gone wrong, seen how any role can screw up a mechanic. I've seen healers get blamed for tank failures, I've been the healer getting blamed for tank failures, but what seems far more common is tanks getting blamed for DPS/healer failures, if they are failures. I once had a party kick me after we wiped because I pulled when the SCH was AFK. Funny part about that: that SCH said absolutely nothing about going AFK.

[HyoMinPark]

After reading about this a8 stuff, and speaking of healer aggro, I'd like to ask for some advice in a12.

I usually tank all of Creator because I enjoy it. And I have had no issues with aggro thus far, but there is something I notice. During the add phase, I know both tanks are taking damage from the adds, and I know when the winged adds show up and fire off their almost Holies, there's a lot of medica II/aspected Helios regens flying around. I've also noticed healers like to throw down their bubbles during the tank lb3 mechanic to help mitigate more damage/allow for some HP regen before Alex Prime plops back into the arena.

Usually after all of this, he will land, and I will notice the healers are usually second or third on the aggro list. Usually if an AST tosses up their Collective Unconscious, they appear to almost be about to rip hate. I'm sure this is from where, while untargetable, Alex is still there and the regens and heals are still generating some healer aggro on him while the tanks are unable to target him and build their own aggro against him until he respawns. I have watched WHM usually pop Shroud around here to dump their aggro and regen some MP to prepare for the rest of the fight, and I don't notice SCH typically having issues with their healer aggro here. So what can ASTs do to sort of watch their healer aggro? Genuinely curious about this. :3

Sorry if it kind of derails from the topic of the thread--I don't necessarily think it does because I've encountered it a lot in my DF runs of a12, and it seems to occur even if I am not MT (because I was thinking I was doing something wrong maybe--especially since a BLM in a party I had was perfectly happy attacking my tanking skills after I brought this up to the very CU-happy AST in the party).

[Ghishlain]

After reading about this a8 stuff, and speaking of healer aggro, I'd like to ask for some advice in a12.

I usually tank all of Creator because I enjoy it. And I have had no issues with aggro thus far, but there is something I notice. During the add phase, I know both tanks are taking damage from the adds, and I know when the winged adds show up and fire off their almost Holies, there's a lot of medica II/aspected Helios regens flying around. I've also noticed healers like to throw down their bubbles during the tank lb3 mechanic to help mitigate more damage/allow for some HP regen before Alex Prime plops back into the arena.

Usually after all of this, he will land, and I will notice the healers are usually second or third on the aggro list. Usually if an AST tosses up their Collective Unconscious, they appear to almost be about to rip hate. I'm sure this is from where, while untargetable, Alex is still there and the regens and heals are still generating some healer aggro on him while the tanks are unable to target him and build their own aggro against him until he respawns. I have watched WHM usually pop Shroud around here to dump their aggro and regen some MP to prepare for the rest of the fight, and I don't notice SCH typically having issues with their healer aggro here. So what can ASTs do to sort of watch their healer aggro? Genuinely curious about this. :3

Sorry if it kind of derails from the topic of the thread--I don't necessarily think it does because I've encountered it a lot in my DF runs of a12, and it seems to occur even if I am not MT (because I was thinking I was doing something wrong maybe--especially since a BLM in a party I had was perfectly happy attacking my tanking skills after I brought this up to the very CU-happy AST in the party).

The good thing about A12N versus A8N is that after the super attack goes out, there's a period of time where Alex comes back into the fight and is setting up Chronofoil, effectively doing nothing (I believe - please correct me if I'm wrong).

This gives the tanks enough time to respond to any real enmity issues I feel, unlike Brute Justice where the boss decides it wants to double fist someone if they feel like it (preferably the tanks).

Just keep an eye on the enmity meters and if need be I'd say prime up to the second part of the enmity combo then Provoke into the 2nd hit followed by the third hit of the combo. That should be more than enough to secure hate I feel.

[Edit] To answer the AST part, there isn't much they can do if they have to go ham with healing due to "reasons" as AST has no ways to actually shed hate. As an AST, I just rely on the tank to have the situational awareness and hope they don't let the boss clobber me if I do have hate =p

[aesteval]

After reading about this a8 stuff, and speaking of healer aggro, I'd like to ask for some advice in a12.

Usually after all of this, he will land, and I will notice the healers are usually second or third on the aggro list. Usually if an AST tosses up their Collective Unconscious, they appear to almost be about to rip hate. I'm sure this is from where, while untargetable, Alex is still there and the regens and heals are still generating some healer aggro on him while the tanks are unable to target him and build their own aggro against him until he respawns. I have watched WHM usually pop Shroud around here to dump their aggro and regen some MP to prepare for the rest of the fight, and I don't notice SCH typically having issues with their healer aggro here. So what can ASTs do to sort of watch their healer aggro? Genuinely curious about this. :3

AST has an ability similar to Shroud of Saints. Purple icon. Luminiferous Ether?

[Fluestergras]

So what can ASTs do to sort of watch their healer aggro? Genuinely curious about this. :3

Luminiferous Ether reduces generated aggro, as well as the stances, Diurnal and Nocturnal.