Japan Adrealine TV 3.4 PvP Update

[Rilasha]

Oh, I was in that game of Frontlines that was posted earlier. I think one point we had 300 points, went down to 44 points and ended on that measly 317.

In small ice, all you can do is try kill ice (magic casters become useless) and in big ice there's no hope at all against that sort of premade since ice dies too slowly. There's no stopping them once they can just Spineshatter Dive -> Instakill. Not to mention that even if I try Sleep them, they have Fetter Ward up.

This sort of problem never occurs in JP Frontlines as most people are solo, pugs have more coordination than on NA and there's more 72 man pops at night. 90% of matches occur in 900/900/1000 scores for 24 and 1500/1500/1600 scores for 72s on the JP servers, well on Elemental DC at least.

[P4X0R10N]

Can wars please, please get the harpoon/pull and invuln in holmgang split into 2 skills?

[Februs]

Can wars please, please get the harpoon/pull and invuln in holmgang split into 2 skills?

That's not likely to ever happen. Firstly, Holmgang is a PvE job skill. SE rarely touches those in virtue of PvP, and when they do it's usually something very small, like negating an effect within a PvP instance (ie: Cleric Stance or Storm's Eye healing redux, etc). Secondly, splitting Holmgang's effect would require splitting it into two separate actions. That means they'd have to add an additional action for War's in either the PvP or PvE tab. In PvE, that would give War's an extra ability over all of the other jobs. In PvP, that would give them an extra ability and screw with the Ap point system.

SE seems to work in a very rigid framework when it comes to abilities and actions, and they like to use that system as a reason to avoid making major changes and adjustments. I don't see them taking a step outside of that box, least of all for War which is arguably the strongest tank job in solo-queue.

[P4X0R10N]

Do warriors and drks and pallies have the EXACT number of actions? If not I don't see how it's giving warriors more actions than others.

And the pull portion of Holmgang isn't even very useful in pve.

At very, very least can the self bind be removed? It's totally unneccessary.

Further making unleash bind is pretty much the equivalent of giving darks an extra action over pallies and wars in a pvp setting.

Your argument just doesn't hold up februs.

[P4X0R10N]

Don't make it a pvp action then. And the fact that many regard wars as a good doesn't mean there aren't qol or general game play changes that need to be made. Wars are easily kite imo. Even with weapon throw. Holmgang is the only tool a warrior has to stay on an enemy.

And it severely punishes the warrior at the same time both in terms of obscene cooldown and the self bind.

Making it for all practically purposes useless outside of a very very few instances.

It's a problem. They should fix it.

[P4X0R10N]

hello player with 3k+ frontline matches.

give us a proper working frontline roulette (i.e. you cannot select frontline maps individually), lvl 60 secure/slaughter and no GCs.

this is what frontline needs.

Yes pls! I don't wanna play shatter all day. I want some seal rock once in a while!

[Geologo]

Holmgang is the only tool a warrior has to stay on an enemy.

As PLD too if I'm not wrong, any job has his pro and cons and anyway weapon throw is truly a good help, also before you had to manage your sprint better than now because of TP, now all the tanks and melee haven't to worry about it and again, with this CC time reduction, you can be slept or bound for a shorter timeframe.

I can agree with you that the drow-in and the invulnerability effect matched together with such cooldown is an odd choice,
but actually WARs are already painful, it's like asking for a shorter cooldown for shadowbind (40 sec) because Foot/Leg Graze can heavy or Bind every 20sec.
BRDs as WARs are already painful, you can't ask for other buffs in my opinion x)

Anyway if they would fix it, can do it adding a PvP skill for WAR that does just the pull effect of Holmgang, giving it a reduced cooldown via trait, and leave Holmgang as it is or removing the pull effect (and the chain animation too at this point).

And a little off topic, P4X0R10N, you can use "Edit Post" button to not make a lot of post in a row, it will make you able to write more than 1000 char.

[Februs]

Do warriors and drks and pallies have the EXACT number of actions? If not I don't see how it's giving warriors more actions than others.

All jobs have a total of 10 job actions, which they all get at identical level bracket intervals. The only exceptions are Astrologian and Dark Knight, because all of their abilities are considered "Job Actions." Though, they still have an identical total number of actions in comparison to the rest of the jobs, they're just classified differently. In any case, War would be getting an additional skill over all of the other jobs in the game, more so if you consider the fact that Holmgang is far from useless as it is. Other skills have far more glaring problems, by comparison.

Further making unleash bind is pretty much the equivalent of giving darks an extra action over pallies and wars in a pvp setting. Your argument just doesn't hold up februs.

Adding or removing an additional effect is NOT the same as splitting one action into two. I've already said that with my example of Cleric Stance or Storm's Eye. Changing the details of a certain effect within the PvP zone is fine, and they've done that before. Though, they did have a valid reason for doing it each time. Storm's Eye, for example, was unbalanced because the proper application of it before a Dps burst placed far too much strain on healers. Holmgang, on the other hand, functions just fine the way it is. It has downsides, but those downsides reflect the move's utility.

You should also keep in mind that splitting the immunity and snare effects of Holmgang would also make the balance between Pld and War even more one sided in War's favour than it already is, as Pld lacks any kind of draw in or gap closer effect. Drk has plunge. War has holmgang. Pld has their stuns, but stuns only have a 3 yalm range (half that of holmgang which is 6 yalms). They can use it to prevent a target from running, but they cannot use it to snare a target that is already in the process of running. The only tool they have for that is weapon throw, which all tanks now have access too. In the PvP world, there is no tank in the game who is as easy to kite as Pld. Wars and Drks have nothing to complain about by comparison. Hallowed Ground is a good compensation; however, it's worth reminding that HG has an 7 minute CD. Plds can only use it a maximum of 1x per match. Drks and Wars have no GC's that suffer nearly as strong a penalty as that.

At very, very least can the self bind be removed? It's totally unnecessary.

^ This, on the other hand, is totally do-able and would be an acceptable adjustment. Normally, the self-bind effect of Holmgang would be considered a balancing feature. It's basically a punishment if the War missuses their Holmgang. That said, the War has no way of knowing if their target has Purify up or not, so it's a guessing game rather than a calculated skill. As long as that's the case, then the penalty of being locked in place is a bit steep to inflict. So long as they could implement removing the self-bind without causing too many technical mishaps (such as letting Wars drag their targets around the arena), then it would be a welcomed change to the job that wouldn't be too imbalanced or overpowered.

[P4X0R10N]

Or I've been thinking. Just reclassiffy the pugilists mantra action to a monk action (which makes more sense imo lore wise) and then let the war cross action the shoulder tackle instead of the mantra.

This is the most elegant fix as it doesn't screw around with any existing abilities nor does it require the addition of a new ability.

[Enlial]

Fix what exactly? Just like any job warrior has its strengths and weaknesses.