I'm a confused tank

[DSaint]

Let me start saying that english is not my primary language, so if I miss a word or sentence, let me know and I will correct it.


Well, I main tank since 2.1. Main PLD, but swap to WAR and DRK sometimes. I think I'm a decent tank, at least.
But since "decent" is not enough for me, I'm always looking for tips and ways to improve my gameplay.

Watching videos, reading forums and guides, hearing more experienced players, i'm always after good information. Back into 2.1~2.5, the general rule for defensive CDs was: "Learn the fight and save your CDs to mitigate spike dmg. Healers have the entire party to keep alive, so make theirs lives easier and avoid being killed".

Since 3.0 I think something changed. I see a lot of talk now about: "Save your CDs. Turn off your Defensive Stance, turn on Ofensive Stance and use a defensive CD. Burst burst burst, back to D. Stance and go back to O.Stance when you have another CD to use."

So, i'm a bit confused here. Did something changed? What should I do? Learn the fight and optimize my defense? Or learn to do stance dance in the middle of fight and maximize dps?

Side note: I DO stance dance, but just in specific situations, e.g. when Ravana is slowly charging attack, or in the final boss of The Vault, in the "fire ball phase". I never did stance dance in the heat of battle.

[Sarcatica]

Only tank in DPS stance if you are absolutely sure about it. The point is for you to contribute as much damage while able to still tank effectively. 3.0 opened the mind of raiding tanks that they can deal a lot of damage while still tanking. There is almost nothing in the game that can 1shot you easily but you still do what you must to survive. This approach does require you to have good healers mainly because they will also likely to be trying to squeeze that DPS in. So you do need to find the balance. But yes, when you are ahead of aggro, you should look for ways to do damage especially when there is no tank busters incoming.

Priority for tanks:

1. Aggro
2. Positioning
3. Do mechanics (tank mechanics alike)
4. Do damage through rotations and CDs (both off and def) management

[Claire_Pendragon]

3.0 changed the endgame to be more focused on DPS rather than surviving tank busters and honestly bosses didnt hit very hard.
Then after some updates SE added less DPS checks to bosses, and some even hit harder now.

In general, if you're geared enough, and you know u can take the hits, throw some DPS in. If it's not going to help, or there is no DPS check, then you might not need to.
It's your call.

[Neela]

same discussion on the healer front... like they said Alex Savage was released with hard dps check everyone in the grp had to take part in... but SE realized that they overdone it and patched tank cls stat weight... they said healer and tanks should focus more on their base-tasks - healers should heal tanks should tank. it's the community endgame fraction who's still thinking healer/tank should make as much damage as they can or you can't play your cls... well i don't blame them cause for a long time it was the common way.

my personal point of view is if i want to dps i would take smn/blm over healer or mnk/nin/drg over tank but here again im actually not in raiding so most of them wouldn't agree with me ; )

like claire said u could support dps if you feel safe but in the end - it's your call...

[SpookyGhost]

Sarcatica basically covered it, tank responsibilities take priority over DPS ones. Always play ultra safe when learning a fight, then find the spots where you can actually DPS efficiently - an easy example is a spot where you're just taking autos, you can turn off your tank stance for that (regens + fairy easily take care of autos).

RE: "Gordias created the DPS meta" -> Nah. Most fights in the game you won't see any negative impact from having more DPS. Pushing phases, meeting DPS checks easier, etc. are all great things and as a tank or a healer you can contribute to that by considering your DPS options at any given GCD. This has been the case since 2.0 and still remains to be the case. The only thing different about Gordias is that you were required to push DPS hard at lower gear levels because everything was so tightly tuned. That doesn't mean, however, that now that DPS checks aren't so tight you shouldn't care as much about your contribution to the group's DPS. It won't necessarily make or break whether you clear the fight or not, but you will definitely increase the chance of the boss dying.

[LilLemay]

The way I see it, at least for things like A5S, once I have a solid established hold on emnity, I'll swap over into sword oath and tank in that, and after that point I kinda regard Shield Oath as a defensive cooldown, I'll turn it back on for a tank buster, or if I need to soak some damage, raid wide damage, etc. Also I'll always try to get at least one Rage of Halone combo out while in shield oath just to help with holding emnity (though if your dps are using their emnity tools as they should you shouldn't have issues).

Though with this strategy in mind you need to remember that you're not locked in to sword oath, holding emnity takes priority over dps, so if you feel you're going to lose the boss then stay in shield oath

[Hierro]

I feel one big thing to note is that dps stance is mostly for boss fights. Trash pulls should be mostly done in tank stance, unless you're a warrior with bloodbath+zerk+double decimate and overpower spam.

[DSaint]

Thanks guys!
I read all your comments and advices. I'm less confused now

[SmallHobbit]

i am play WAR and i need to say i am play a aggrasive style of a tank and after the STR/ VIT change there is no reason to use tank stance anymore at all, a WAR take the same damage no matter which stance.
so with this huge ammount of HP now i am should be easy to be healed and even a tank buster dont instant kill me when i use the right CD for it and aggro is never a problem when you do the right rotation you will never lose aggro, if you are not using a ilvl 145 weapon in high level content

regards small hobbit

[bounddreamer]

My co tank, our PLD MT, tanks in shield oath almost 100% of the time. His view, as with a lot of tanks, is that he is a tank, not a dps. Is more dps helpful? Sure, but it's not his responsibility.

This should only really be a concern if you're raiding the front edge of savage and extreme raiding content and your group wants you to dps more. In that case, it's a discussion you have with your main healer and you guys have to figure out which phases make the most sense for you to dps.

On Sephirot, for example, almost the entire final phase can be tanked in sword oath. You only really need shield oath for the adds after the blowback.