Should PLD and WAR get gap-closers at 70?

[Brannigan]

I'd like to have a class that can ride around on a bike.

Cyclemancer

[Reynhart]

That comes with the role though. all healers have an aoe heal, an cleanse and resurrection move, a big heal, various ways to help mitigate, regeneration, a shield ability, i mean thats why the holy trinity is kind of...yay balance.

Yeah, and all tanks have tank stance, enmity combo, mitigation cooldown, a parry/block buff...so ?

Plunge is as much tied to the tank role than Fluid Aura is to the healer role...i.e not at all.

[Fannah]

A gap closer, as I said, is a good way to reach a target which is far from you for whatever reason in the middle of a fight to get aggro on it quickly after you took the other npcs. And then you can directly keep generating aggro on it with your aggro combos instead of just Provoke and run to that one and lose it directly again. It's not about dps, nor healing, nor "quick-style" but about aggro management.

We could have for the WAR a move like "Sprint speed for 5 sec, and your next GCD has no TP cost. CD : 120 sec. The cooldown is reduced by 10 sec per monster killed around you in the 15 yards. (PvP : -20sec per ennemy killed around)". Which could be a cool move to engage between two fights, and also gain some time thanks to the sprint speed to have time to get more aggro before the others can hit and generate aggro, and the sprint bonus gives no dps bonus at all this way. This will also fit the WAR style of rage system per monster killed to feel like excited and ready for another fight (which is also helped by the no cost with the next GCD). On top of that, you can also just keep it for a fight for when you will see a monster which escape your aggro management system.

The Paladin could have a "Sprint speed for 5sec which stuns with his shield, and which stuns a longer duration based on the traveled distance. Minimum Stun duration : 1sec, max 5sec. Act like the starter "Fast Blade" for aggro combos, so you can directly just "Savage Blade" + "Rage of Halone". CD : 90s." This would make a great starting combo, and the 5sec stun duration would be perfect to just do the full aggro combo (or even the dps one giving mana) and just stun once again a monster which usually open with a charging move like the AoE terror effect from Succubus and interrupt it with your GCD stun. With a "Target 1" maccro, it would be perfect to be sure people focus the same stuned character while you are sure to be able to generate aggro on it without problem.

The CDs here are a lot longer than Plunge because it would be great to really see them as tools used when needed. Those are just ideas, I'm not saying they would be the best options.

[Reynhart]

A gap closer, as I said, is a good way to reach a target which is far from you for whatever reason in the middle of a fight to get aggro on it quickly after you took the other npcs. And then you can directly keep generating aggro on it with your aggro combos instead of just Provoke and run to that one and lose it directly again. It's not about dps, nor healing, nor I'm so quick but about aggro management.

Plunge range : 15 yalms
Unmend range : 15 yalms
Shield Lob range : 15 yalms
Tomahaw range : 15 yalms

So, if you can "plunge" to your target, you can also use your ranged enmity move, with the benefit of not screwing any positionnals against mobs that are already around you.

[Fannah]

Plunge means you can chain directly with something else because you're at melee, unlike our Tomahawk/Shield generating as much aggro as a 390potency move (130x3) for 120 TP while it's free for DRK, and spamming such a move is not worth (but 390 of a weak class (tanks) because we are made weaker on purpose) and aggro is directly linked to the dmg system because it's just a multiplication of the damage dealt to the target. And the range attacks of tanks have no existing combo (maybe it would be time to get those abilities acting like a combo starter, and that would be also a solution).

[SyzzleSpark]

It's DRK's entire identity is hinged on his gap closer....

Nobody said that.

Anything a job can do that other jobs of its type can't contributes to its identity and flavor. Its *entire* identity is based on quite a lot of things

The fact that it isn't game changing is reason for DRK to keep it, not reason to fork it over to the other tanks.

[Reynhart]

Plunge means you can chain directly with something else because you're at melee

Actually, the animation lock prevents you from chaining a GCD right after Plunge. That's why you use Unmend before Plunge when pulling. So, even DRK can not generate strong ranged enmity "for free".

Yes enmity is linked to damage but a 100 potency move with a x3 multiplier will generate more enmity than a 250 potency move, so potency is not everything.

[Jonnycbad]

Unmend/Tomahawk/Shield Lob are GCD, the latter two are expensive TP-wise also.

[Fannah]

Yes enmity is linked to damage but a 100 potency move with a x3 multiplier will generate more enmity than a 250 potency move, so potency is not everything.

Don't make me say what I didn't say xD
Tomahawk is like a 390 potency (130 x 3 as I said) it's a multiplication between the potency and the enmity bonus of the move itself, so of course I know both are important x) I didn't expect I had to be even more accurate to describe the whole mecanic to be sure you know I know.
For exemple, Butcher's Block is a 280 potency with a 5.5 multiplicator, so the hit itself (in the combo) generates as many potency as if you made a 280*5.5= 1540 potency hit without any stance. I'm sure you know that also, but yea, no need to go into that much details to be understood here, isn't it? x)

[Kitfox]

That's why you use Unmend before Plunge when pulling.

You don't Plunge on pull.