WoW Legion uses FFXI style for relics but FFXIV does not?

[FizzleofHyperion]

Pretty much what the topic says.

Legions relics are very similiar to FFXI ways of obtaining relics now.
It seems to be a hard long path that actually is rewarding and the relic continues to grow with you. I'm not refering to currency wise but the path and ways of obtaining the relic and the time you must invest into getting one and the reward of obtaining it where it shows how you can distance yourself from the rest because of the time and dedication for your gaming.

How come in FFXIV we are still stuck with a method that Player B can always catch up with Player A on the relic with less time invested for a new chapter to get released again making the effort pretty useless after a while?

Certain things should have remained sacred in FFXIV especially when FFXI should have been the flagship model for the relic and not how every other mmorpg seems to do.
Shape the player don't adapt to them constantly.
There are ways of getting weapons that are almost as up to the same ilvl in the as a relic through a casual method.
Palace of the dead or if you have a good group for nidhogg ex.

The relic should have been a stone left unturned. It should have been a weapon that grew with you constantly instead of breaking it for a new chapter.
The relics from ARR and the time invested to obtaining thoese surely was a disappointment for all players who wanted to dedicate time to get them.
It was almost easier to obtain the 18 crystals needed for the HW relic than to actually make the ARR relic.
How do you explain that to the people that spent countless of hours to obtain this and gil?
That their weapon they worked so hard for was useless for the sake of a new expansion?
On top of that HW gave weapons equally good on the ilvl if not better almost mocking the playerbase that wanted to feel that they deserved that extra reward.

The relics should have been harder to obtain with the same circumstances for everyone no nerfs no handsouts and they should have never been given the feeling of beeing worthless after a certain time.

SAVE ALL THIS ISNT FFXI COMMENT AND THIS ISNT FFXI 2.0 most people are fedup with thoese replies.

People are asking for 1 thing to be sacred and remain untouched not a whole game. That can also show that FFXI had something right since Legion is following that example.

If there are still multiple paths to get weapons that are just as strong as a relic in lvl point of view why not leave that option available for everyone and let the actual relic be the sacred holy item that continues to grow with you regardless of what expansion/update?
It is really not that hard. For example now you can get the i240 lore weapon so it adds up to the relic so whats the point of making one thing thats more time consuming to obtain beeing so useless and worthless?

What are everyones thoughts about this?

[Daranion]

Because they are meant to be the same weapon you use for the entire expansion. Can you imgine FORCING people to do the relic grind in order to keep up with class development here?

[aesteval]

Could be the relic sees steps nerfed because the initial version of some steps are so obnoxiously and mindlessly grindy you can't effectively expect all players over all times to experience the same thing to receive a weapon that's 6 - 12 months obsolete. Keeping the grind intact needs to see more reasonable grind steps and a longer lifespan for any given step of the relic. Aether Oil once a week for 5 weeks seems like a fair step, the original unidentifiables was plain madness. Not sure where I fall on Umbrite yet. Umbrite seems more approachable, but I kind of hate only having one access method.

[Airget]

What are you talking about OP? There was nothing engaging about obtaining relic in XI, they were all just tedious grinds that literally took a year+ to obtain for one person at a time because of Dynamis timers. . . A zone of 11 location that you had to share with the entire server. Want to do Dynamis-Bastok then hope no one else is inside or wants to go in after or else you gotta wait and then it just throws a wrench into the rest of the week with your timers.

And even with the "Growth" process of said weapons, the mechanics were still pretty similar to what's needed in XIV.

Spharai for example,you want it at 80? Then be prepared to build up TP use Final Heaven 200 times on Vermin-family mobs, followed by 200 Final Heaven on Plantoid family that gives xp, followed by 300 Final Heaven useage on beast-family that give xp followed by 300 Final Heaven usage on Amorph family that give xp. o_O Engaging content? Not really, just a long tedious grind while sure it has a set completion time is still extremely tedious, at min you would be needing to defeat 1k mobs or less but at max it could be double that based on how well you procced or if you attack didn't miss since if I"m not mistaken in that case Final Heaven was a single-hit ability so missing pretty much negated that round of TP building.

And heck, it's not like they made it any easier, the next stage was 400 Final Heaven killshots on Arcana Type. I enjoyed XI for what it was but you can't compared Legion from which from what I understand everyone gets an opportunity to work on their weapon of choice compared to XI which was pretty much a group of 36 or more or less were helping 1-3 people with their weapon over the process of a year or more or less.

[Nalien]

I just want a narrative from my Relics... I want to feel like I'm on an epic quest to forge a legendary weapon... Instead I feel like I'm doing chores to obtain a glorified tomestone weapon... I'm not putting any extra effort into obtaining these things, the upgrade process is practically automatic at this point... "Oh, I've nearly capped Esoterics, time to buy Umbrite"... First two steps were bad, but the latest three are worse... FATE grinds, though I loath them, at least meant I had to put effort into getting the weapon... Same for dungeons, I have to go out and clear those dungeon, else I'm not progressing... Unidentified items? While they gave us options, they took away the feeling of doing something specific to progress... I'd have loved a second version of Alexandrite Maps here, so rather than getting the Unidentified item directly, you have to go do a special Map for it... Aether Oil? Literally just a Esoterics grind you can get done while capping Lore, no extra effort required unless you want to speed up the process... Umbrite? Same deal...

They've made Anima weapons practically automatic these days... So long as you're playing the game, you're likely to finish the damn thing... You don't have to go out of your way to do anything after the dungeons, it's just a slow tomestone grind... That doesn't make for an interesting reward... Nobody gets to the top of an escalator and cheers because they got to the top... They just stood there and you took them to the top... That's how Anima weapons feel to me now... I can sit on the escalator or run up the stairs, either way there is no achievement...

I actually imagine I'll be more interested in the Scriptures weapons at this point... Presumably we'll have to go out of our way to farm Creator for those as well as tomestones... Unless they give me a Balrahn style solo challenge for the final step, the Anima weapons are just an incredibly dull tomestone grind... The flavour around the weapon is the only redeeming feature, and that honestly sucks... My Nothung and Kannagi are functionally the same, they gave us "living" weapons, and pretty much instantly separated the Anima from the weapon, removing any individuality across weapons... They're all just the same little spirit thing... Doesn't help that the current step feels like something out of Breaking Bad, my Anima seems to have developed an addiction to this blue crystal sand substance... I hope at the very least, the final step isn't some obnoxious glow, but instead an obnoxious text bubble coming off our weapons... I'm meant to be making a living weapon, give the weapon some personality... Christ, XI did a better job of this with a single cutscene, and Wings of the Goddess took us back to see some of the Relics talking in combat...

[Maleficent]

In Legion, the experience is rich because "You obtain your Artifact early on in the Legion experience. This is the weapon you will use throughout the expansion. You will not get weapon drops in Legion." That'll be the only weapon.

I understand your view on the relic.

My thoughts are the relic is the casual method (going by a definition "casual = don't raid") since I don't raid, I only have tomestone and relic weapons as my options. Just as the raid weapons are options for folks who don't want to invest time and gil in the relic.

More options are a good thing because our FFXIV community is made up of different players.

Walling it off would mean it's less of an option for the community especially our non-raider friends who joined in HW.

I spent and continue to spend the "countless hours and gil" for the relic. I don't begrudge that in HW one could start into a new relic arc without the old. The old relic saved me the FATE runs and I still have it as a glamour option. Yay for us who did it. (^_^)

For me, the achievement and journey is just as important. Having done the relic pre-nerf doesn't take anything away from me when someone does it post-nerf. Just like me 'catching up' on the new raids post-nerf never had as epic a feeling and journey as the ones I managed to do pre-nerf (when I was less casual).

[FizzleofHyperion]

Its more about the current process. I'm not asking to do 1000 weaponskills or tp build or anything like that. I mean if you want a relic it should be a bit harder to obtain and be useless after such a while. The relic as it is now is a bit time consuming as it is but its unrewarding. No one said make the relic as it was on FFXI ways to obtain it through a dynamis its more of making a path that makes progress worth the effort.
Currently its not worth the effort because someone can still get an i240 with the new update or a i235 wich is really close like it is on the palace of the dead.

This discussion has been up for debate so many times with mixed feelings.
Alot of people don't do relic because of how unrewarding it actually is.

Its really not hard as I said before to leave one stone left unturned.

You have palace of the dead, current ex primal and you can use your lore for an i 240 weapon thats already 3 methods to get a weapon equally good as a relic or very close to it.
Surely the relic could have been something that should take longer to obtain and be way more rewarding than it currently is?
Is it really that bad to have something that can distance one player from another by showing that your time dedication is rewarded instead of constantly beeing punished for it so others can catch up for half the effort?

Why cant one thing just be something that is backbone if you enjoy grinding alot and it can turn out to be rewarding? Is it really too much to ask when the rest of the game is a hamsterwheel of handouts?

[MagiusNecros]

Instead I feel like I'm doing chores to obtain a glorified tomestone weapon...

Too bad that's all it is. Main component of upgrading it is tomestones and tokens. Just like everything fucking else. Accompanied by boring flavortext like "oh WoL we want to forge the thing but we need the things and the things are hard to come by so grind grind grind you bum."

Hip hip hooray

Take from this what you will.

Incompetence and a belief a majority of players have a skill level of "Mediocre"? Raid content can be cleared fine. If he means Extreme/Savage that's for well coordinated groups ergo not idiots that want to complete masochistic memory match content.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

I would like to add two points to this, the first one is about the relic quest, the anima weapon quest which is time consuming. You might say it’s going to be time consuming and it’s not really challenging but the reason we have this content in game is to support those who are not good at playing the game, say to beat the raid contents to get the higher items with higher item level, so if this relic quest was too difficult for them then it’s going to discourage them to try it, that’s why this is our intention to make it less challenging for the anima weapon quest.

Take from this what you will.

[FizzleofHyperion]

Zetsumi Tsunaras:
I'm not sure if Yoshi P has analyzed that subject correctly.
Its way faster to obtain an i240 lore weapon and get a i235 relic through palace of the dead than what Yoshi P is refering too as the easier route for casual players.
Palace of the dead is a way more casual route than the anima questline. Do palace of the dead 10 times and you have an i235 relic.
Lets say all ten runs take 10h total to obtain thats still way faster than getting a relic from i200 to i240 (this should be viewed as worst case scenario in palace of the dead no need to read into it so much)
We can all be realistic about that part.